Which bag has more apples?

Post by **Jeff** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:01 pm

Please help settle this debate from IRC! Vote for the bag that you feel contains the most apples.

teh1ghool · Post by **teh1ghool** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:05 pm

If you do thorough research like I have, you'll see that 'several' is more specific to around 3, while few can be any small number. Even 20 is a small number. However it is best used for numbers from 4/5 to 9/10.

tokage · Post by **tokage** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:08 pm

What is this?

Well, I am out of judgment as I am not a native English speaker. But I would urge you to rephrase the question. What I feel is, that having apples is not the same as containing apples, because having is a form of possession and I doubt that a bag can possess anything. I wouldn't nitpick, if the whole question wouldn't be about fine language details, but as it stands...

teh1ghool · Post by **teh1ghool** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:19 pm

People who vote for 'few' being less obviously haven't done the research. Noobs.

Renegade_Turner · Post by **Renegade_Turner** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:43 pm

tokage wrote:Well, I am out of judgment as I am not a native English speaker.

...you're not? But you're so articulate!

teh1ghool wrote:People who vote for 'few' being less obviously haven't done the research. Noobs.

"a few(a): more than one but indefinitely small in number; "a few roses"; "a couple of roses""

Source: http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=a%20few

Considering "a couple of roses", which means 2, is presented in conjunction with the definition for "a few", and also considering that "several" is well known for representing quantities greater than 2, it would be the logical conclusion of most people on first impression that the bag with several apples has more apples than the bag with a few apples. However, it does not follow that all quantities referred to by "several" are greater than all quantities referred to by "a few".

For example, someone could refer to a bag with 3 apples as "a bag with several apples", but another person could refer to a bag with 4 apples as "a bag with a few apples".

In summary, on the balance of probabilities you would be more likely to be correct if you chose "a bag with several apples" as being the greater. Does anyone contest this?

If so, consider this:

A bag with 2 apples can be considered to have a few apples. It can not be considered to have several apples.
Also, a bag with 3 apples can be considered to have either "a few apples" or "several apples".
On the basis of these posits, it can be argued, with regard to probability, that because "a few apples" holds more possibilities of representing a lower quantity than "several apples" does, it is more likely that the bag with "a few" would contain less than the bag with "several" would.

I may have achieved overkill, but I think I significantly rubbished your so-called "research", as it were. Noob.

TheBigCheese · Post by **TheBigCheese** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:57 pm

tokage wrote:Well, I am out of judgment as I am not a native English speaker. But I would urge you to rephrase the question.

Which is implies more, 'few' or 'several'?

'several', in this instance, must be correct because there are no numbers involved. 'few' implies a relative value that is much higher (20 is a few if there are thousands in the orchard), but because this situation has no relative value of what the expected norm is, people instantly see it as 'smaller than the other choice', which in this case is having 'several'.

Starrz · Post by **Starrz** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:40 pm

When I hear few, I think of 1 or 2. When I hear several, I think of a big number.

RobLikesBrunch · Post by **RobLikesBrunch** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:46 pm

Starrz wrote:When I hear few, I think of 1 or 2. When I hear several, I think of a big number.

What? A few Renegade_Turner? Doesn't even make sense grammatically due to pluralization.

Starrz · Post by **Starrz** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:20 pm

RobLikesBrunch wrote:
Starrz wrote:When I hear few, I think of 1 or 2. When I hear several, I think of a big number.
What? A few Renegade_Turner? Doesn't even make sense grammatically due to pluralization.

Hahaha... I meant 2 or 3... I'm very sorry.

Assaultman67 · Post by **Assaultman67** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:27 pm

Hmm, im not seeing how a few could beat several ...

teh1ghool · Post by **teh1ghool** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:46 pm

As mentioned, few is relative while several is precise. If that's the case, then if a number of apples in the orchard is not presented it is safe to say that there are a lot. There are a lot of everything in the world, except for things like the LHC. Therefore a few can nearly always be assumed to be more than 3, which is more than several.

h2ostra · Post by **h2ostra** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:59 pm

But since the term is relative, and for the majority of people, apples are encountered in small numbers (~12 or less), most people would assume that a "few" apples is considerably less that that (more than 12 is reaching "a lot" or "a bunch of" level). We have to take intent into the question here. Unless the person in question owns a canary, or an orchard, "a few" apples would not mean, say 400. Personally, I would use "Several" to mean more than a "few".

teh1ghool · Post by **teh1ghool** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:30 pm

Wrong. Grocery stores have often over a hundred out on display for you to choose from.

Assaultman67 · Post by **Assaultman67** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:37 pm

So why isn't several relative? ...

It's pretty futile to keep saying that few is more than several ... especially considering that the majority understanding of a word tends to define it ...

hence why definitions of words change over time ...

h2ostra · Post by **h2ostra** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:44 pm

I understand the technicalities of the issue, and I agree with what you (teh1ghool) are saying, but I also think that in communication, what is more important than what is technically "right" is what the most people will understand. If more people seem to think that "Several" is larger than "few", then it makes sense to use such terminology in a way that is understandable, since neither has a specific and definitive set value.

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