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The Zelda series has always reused puzzles. Not that I've ever considered a Zelda puzzle even moderately challenging, but of course every 3D Zelda game after OoT is going to seem easier than OoT: you've already done everything. The more recent the Zelda game, the easier everyone says it is in terms of puzzles.

What about the Wii controls was irritating at all? They were responsive and intuitive and made archery genuinely fun for once in the entire series.

The original Zelda overworld music was not present, this is true. This does not make TP's music worse; if new = bad then you've contradicted yourself already. I'd go so far as to say it has one of the best soundtracks of the series, in fact; in terms of the overworld music, it's easily my favorite, with Wind Waker's daytime music second (the night one is pretty terrible).

Your second-to-last issue is the main argument against the game with which I agree. Ganondorf's inclusion in the story did seem rather forced. But really, since when the fuck ever has the plot of a Zelda game been worth a damn?

And Midna is fucking awesome shush you. At least relative to, um, every other character in the series, since almost every non-enemy NPC is a personality-less failure at life whose entire purpose seems to be guilt-tripping Link into a billion stupid quests.

Glabbit wrote:

Renegade_Turner wrote:...I'm sorry, but you're an idiot.

Not understanding everything does not equals being an idiot.
Stop being an ass, Ren. I know you can do better than that.

In this case it does, my child. Rather to be an ass than to be an idiot.

Ultimatum479 wrote:And Midna is fucking awesome shush you. At least relative to, um, every other character in the series, since almost every non-enemy NPC is a personality-less failure at life whose entire purpose seems to be guilt-tripping Link into a billion stupid quests.

Navi: Quest here! Hey!!! Hey!!! HEY!!! HEY!!! HEY!!! HEY!!! OVER HERE!!! HEY!!!
Midna: Quest there...I get boobs later...Quest there....Boooobs....yes...booobs...quest. Go do quest.

Naw, Midna actually had a personality, which was cool.

if by personality you mean she was a bitch with an annoying voice, than yes.

She was a bitch at the very beginning of the game, which was the point because at that point she was just screwing with you instead of actually helping. It doesn't take long before she actually cares about what's going on, and then she stops being a bitch and starts being a great character.

What makes Ocarina of Time so good:
Original gameplay.
Solid controls.
Challenging puzzles.
Wide variety of sidequests, few of which were boring.
A decent story which isn't shoved in the player's face.
Overall, the entire game fit together better than most and felt so great, even among today's games. Give this game a graphics update, allow cutscenes to be skipped, and perform a few more smaller tweaks, and you've got a possible contender for Game of the Year, or rather would if the game didn't already come out at least four times, with a fifth coming soon. (Once on the N64, twice on Gamecube, and once Wii Virtual Console. In the future, a port for the upcoming 3DS.)

What makes Twilight Princess so bad:
Hardly anything new was added to the gameplay, despite the Wiimote.
The previously-existing gameplay felt poorly implemented.
Wolf Link was a complete ripoff of Okami. And, unlike Okami, it was boring as hell.
A lousy story which is shoved into players' mouths and forced down with a plunger.
Annoying sidequests.
Multiple frustrating moments.
The story got hijacked by Ganondorf.
The final boss was disappointing.
My eyes burned while in the Twilight realm due to the incredible overuse of bloom.
And, most importantly, Link looks like a woman.
Overall, Twilight Princess emitted an aura of lousiness which resulted in me having to force myself to just finish the game. Unlike every other Zelda game I've played, I had absolutely no desire to play the game again or to do any of the sidequests. But, I can at least say that it was better than Star Fox Adventures.


I'm really excited for Skyward Sword. If Nintendo does things right, it may be even better than Ocarina of Time.
Why Skyward Sword will be good:
Wiimote implementation which isn't gimmicky.
Some free-running added to gameplay. (Good puzzle possibilities, plus I'm a Mirror's Edge fanboy.)
Bowling Bombs.
Smaller but more-dense world. (Worked very well in Half-Life 2.)
Development focus is on fun, not story.
Interesting graphic design (Fun, but not childish like Wind Waker was.)
Reintroduction of classic Zelda enemies.
Long development time. (Just like Ocarina of Time and that turned out well.)

iLag wrote:What makes Twilight Princess so bad:
Hardly anything new was added to the gameplay, despite the Wiimote. The previously-existing gameplay felt poorly implemented.

Agreed, although it being the first 3D Zelda I played, I disliked the bow in other versions-personal opinion.

Wolf Link was a complete ripoff of Okami. And, unlike Okami, it was boring as hell.

Never seen or heard of Okami, but, yes, it was pretty boring.

A lousy story which is shoved into players' mouths and forced down with a plunger.

Let's see, the children are kidnapped (Yes, I do find this part a bit forced.), you go after them, because they're your friends/future wife (Presumably). You're captured and then Midna frees you and makes you do what she says in order to save the kids. You find most of the kids, but not Llia (Or is it Ilia?). You then find Ilia (Or is it Llia?), but she's got amnesia, so you bring her back to the shaman guy. Then you get the water suit and go into the water temple. You have an encounter with Zant, then you're off to Zelda to heal you and Midna. Zelda heals Midna and then you go get the Master Sword to heal yourself.Midna has by this time grown more friendly, and asks you if you would rid the world of Zant, you say yes, probably because you don't feel like going through the whole game again later.You find the mirrors, and you kill Zant, but Ganon has taken the castle (Yes he was forced). You beat Ganon.

Annoying sidequests.

Yes, agreed, they were all gathering qeusts except the shop one, which I think was pretty good.

Multiple frustrating moments.

Not for me, what were they?

The story got hijacked by Ganondorf.

As mentioned above, I agree.

The final boss was disappointing.

Atleast it had 4 stages instead of 3.

My eyes burned while in the Twilight realm due to the incredible overuse of bloom.

You have sensitive eyes. That or I have good eyes.

And, most importantly, Link looks like a woman.

OK, you are weird

I may have missed something in the story part, but overall I didn't find the story to forced.

Kicktar wrote:Agreed, although it being the first 3D Zelda I played, I disliked the bow in other versions-personal opinion.

I'll admit that the bow was pretty good in Twilight Princess.

Multiple frustrating moments.

Not for me, what were they?

That one minigame at the fishing place where you have to guide the ball down the track. I still have nightmares about that.

The final boss was disappointing.

Atleast it had 4 stages instead of 3.

But were they good stages? That's the question, and I'd rather have fewer good stages than more bad stages.

My eyes burned while in the Twilight realm due to the incredible overuse of bloom.

You have sensitive eyes. That or I have good eyes.

That was a bit of an exaggeration on my part, but the bloom was very overdone.

And, most importantly, Link looks like a woman.

OK, you are weird

That was more of a joke. Still, you have to admit I have a point.

I may have missed something in the story part, but overall I didn't find the story to forced.

It wasn't just the force, but how deep it tried to go without adequately making me care. Maybe it's just me, but I really don't care at all for deep plots in video games, probably because hardly any are done well.

Alright, which Zelda did you play first and second?

Deep plot? Twilight Princess didn't have a deep plot. It was deep compared to other zelda games, but I wouldn't consider it deep compared to anything else.

Agreed, but I think that's part of what is so great about the series, the player can fill in the gaps as he chooses. But with TP, they did stray a little too deep.
For me, I played MC as my first Gameboy Advance SP game, and then TP as my first Wii game. Having these as the first games I had played in the Zelda series, they are may favorites. Then I got WW, and that was good, then OoT, and that was good, but neither of these topped TP for me. I'm sure if I had played those first, I would think that they were the best, but I didn't.