Sparring feedback

[Endoperez]

About the worst thing to do in a group situation is grab onto someone or be grabbed by someone. (finally something I said is applicable to Over Growth) In other words, save the Judo throw for one on one combat, dodge otherwise.

You shouldn't start wrestling, sure, but have you seen Aikido randori? The "enemies" tend to wait "for their turn", and it's not realistic in all ways, but it can still look quite impressive.

[MishoM]

You shouldn't start wrestling, sure, but have you seen Aikido randori? The "enemies" tend to wait "for their turn", and it's not realistic in all ways, but it can still look quite impressive.

Steven Segal's randori black belt test that I mentioned earlier is much more brutal. I didn't post the youtube videos before, because there's a lot of other stuff in them besides the tests footage, but here they are:

[Chip]

I am familiar with Aikido (I haven't done much of it though) and I agree, it looks awesome and it is a lot more practical than people give it credit.That being said, those demonstrations are not good models for a real fighting situation as much as test speed, technique under pressure, movement, and balance. If Aikido inspired moves are implemented (well) most players will still find it to be better used one on one, or when armor is involved.

[EPR89]

Fighting multiple opponents is easy with the proper techniques.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW4POr1ZNLc

ROFLMAO

[Stuntddude]

1. I always feel like, no matter what strategy I choose, I'm always better off if I just try to use the leg cannon on enemies. It is satisfying, and perhaps necessary at this point in the gameplay (see below), but it seems to undermine the other combat a bit.

Given how tough it is to successfully land one, and what the consequences are, they're not really any more overpowered than the rest of the stuff you can do in combat.

2. Once you are at two or more enemies, it quickly becomes easy to get into situations where you're overpowered and no amount of skill can save you. You could be fighting with one enemy and countering their moves, but if the other attacks in the middle of your counter you have no way of defending yourself.

Not if you play tactically and know what you're doing. Once you figure out how to kite them, there's no luck involved.

3. Weapons are all kinds of messed up. Beyond the simple knife, weapon combat is no fun. It's all one-hit one-kill and is just a matter of who strikes first. How is this going to be resolved in the game? Will armor make actual weapon combat plausible?

Not with all weapons, and the ones that do one-hit-kills are significantly slower. Plus, you don't need a weapon to do that -- just kick an enemy while they're rolling.

4. Randomly dying because you hit the ground the wrong way gets pretty annoying. Whether it's coming off a leg cannon, a dodge gone wrong, or whatever, there are too many ways to die outside of combat.

Says the guy who was just complaining about the leg cannon being too OP...

[Endoperez]

Given how tough it is to successfully land one, and what the consequences are, they're not really any more overpowered than the rest of the stuff you can do in combat.

...

Says the guy who was just complaining about the leg cannon being too OP...

The leg cannon is very easy to use and it's very easy to dominate enemies with it. Furthermore, I kinda agree with the other people who have said that it feels silly when you die of a backflip. It shouldn't happen as often as it does. You play a game to be awesome, not to accidentally kill yourself. Imagine dying in a bossfight, not because anything the boss did, but because you jumped the wrong way. That's just not right.

[Stuntddude]

Given how tough it is to successfully land one, and what the consequences are, they're not really any more overpowered than the rest of the stuff you can do in combat.

...

Says the guy who was just complaining about the leg cannon being too OP...

The leg cannon is very easy to use and it's very easy to dominate enemies with it. Furthermore, I kinda agree with the other people who have said that it feels silly when you die of a backflip. It shouldn't happen as often as it does. You play a game to be awesome, not to accidentally kill yourself. Imagine dying in a bossfight, not because anything the boss did, but because you jumped the wrong way. That's just not right.

Perhaps your experiences are different, but that almost never happens to me unless either I completely fail a parkour jump, or I am already in some deep shit in combat anyways. How is accidentally killing yourself in a game because you did something stupid "just not right"?

[Endoperez]

Perhaps your experiences are different, but that almost never happens to me unless either I completely fail a parkour jump, or I am already in some deep shit in combat anyways. How is accidentally killing yourself in a game because you did something stupid "just not right"?

It happens very rarely to me as well.

I'll focus on the last question here.


The game is designed to make the player experience something.

A racing game is designed to make the player experience racing, a platformer or an FPS game isn't. Platformers and FPS games shouldn't add racing, unless that's their unique selling point, the thing that separates them from other FPSs and platformers. Lots of exceptions apply, but that's the general idea.

Overgrowth is about rabbit ninjas, combat, and jumping around. How does "derp I can't jump and died" fit into this? Is it something that emphasizes what the game is about, or does it distract from it?

To answer that, let's look at anthropomorphic ninjas and fighting and fighting with awesome jumps.
TMNT? A turtle might fall down for comedic effect, but probably wouldn't be captured (= "death" ) because of it.
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon? No death from a jump. A bad landing could cause a wounded status, like a temporarily limp foot, so that the next fight is under more tension. But no death from a jump, it isn't dramatic enough.

[Stuntddude]

Overgrowth is about rabbit ninjas, combat, and jumping around. How does "derp I can't jump and died" fit into this?

It fits into providing a punishment for when you royally screw up. Overgrowth isn't a tanking game -- you're not supposed to be able to make a fatal mistake and then just get back up and keep fighting.

Especially for parkour, "derp I can't jump and fell to my death" or "derp I can't jump and broke my spine" are, in my opinion, much more entertaining than suffering no injuries but having to run back to the beginning and start over anyway.

[Endoperez]

It fits into providing a punishment for when you royally screw up. Overgrowth isn't a tanking game -- you're not supposed to be able to make a fatal mistake and then just get back up and keep fighting.

Especially for parkour, "derp I can't jump and fell to my death" or "derp I can't jump and broke my spine" are, in my opinion, much more entertaining than suffering no injuries but having to run back to the beginning and start over anyway.

It's a punishment, but is it punishing something that's a logical mistake? The death usually only happens if you jump, and then roll while you're in the air. If this is a mistake that should be punished, it's better if the player never rolls in the air. It also doesn't give any advantage. The only reason to do it is that it looks cool.
So in a roundabout way it punishes the player because he wants to look cool.

The game should, instead, reward the player for doing cool stuff. One thing I enjoyed doing in Lugaru was doing the roll at the moment of landing. It just looked cool. I don't remember if it actually did anything, but it "felt right". The landing in Lugaru was heavier and meatier, there could be a small shockwave-like effect and you took minor damage when landing from a long fall.


It works for parkour, but only when you fall off from a place which you can't get back to in a single jump. The death can happen even with tiny jumps.
What if failed jumps dealt damage, and falling a long distance was still a death? That way the same effect would still apply for parkour, but not outside it.

[Stuntddude]

The death usually only happens if you jump, and then roll while you're in the air. If this is a mistake that should be punished, it's better if the player never rolls in the air. It also doesn't give any advantage. The only reason to do it is that it looks cool.
So in a roundabout way it punishes the player because he wants to look cool.

The only times I've died from doing a flip during a jump was in the first 30 minutes or so of playing the game, when my timing was completely off and I was still getting used to the controls. And even then, it was easy to recognize that the reason I was dying was that I was timing it wrong, not because you shouldn't do flips in the air.

What if failed jumps dealt damage, and falling a long distance was still a death?

I'm not quite sure I understand your meaning here. What would constitute a failed jump? And how would it deal damage? It seems like an interesting idea, but I don't fully get it.

[kibaoo]

if your character is in ragdoll and is flying through the air u should press "shift". This will stablize it, so u wont hit the ground by death.
btw a good way fighting against multiple enemies is to keep a defence combat style. You need to get all these guy in front of you having a chance to succeed, because a kick by the side is in most cases your death anyway. Dodging mechanics are appreciated, so get used to it. =D

[Constance]

if your character is in ragdoll and is flying through the air u should press "shift".

Not too close to the ground, though.

[Endoperez]

I'm getting bored of this discussion, and it isn't really going anywhere and it's just a tiny part of the whole sparring thing, so I'll just stop with this:

It doesn't matter if it only happens rarely. Punishing a failed jump with instant death is too severe in my opinion. You should only be hurt when you fail a flip during a jump, not die instantly, again, in my opinion.

[akazi]

I'm getting bored of this discussion

I thought is was quit entertaining to read both of you babel about this.