Suggestion on how to still make money from piracy

[Jeff]

It's actually a little more complicated than that. There is a hidden cost to adding new buttons to your website, which is why we don't have a link to our t-shirt store and other things either. If you make your website more complicated by adding say, a donate button, you will likely see a decrease in your other goals.

Google has actually created a tool that lets you run website experiments for this very purpose. You can do what's called multi-variate testing which basically means you enter a number of configurations like whether or not to have a donate button, where to put the download link, etc. and Google will mathematically figure out which combination produced what results.

We've done a number of tests on the Lugaru page, and maybe if I get some free time, I will add a donate button and we can measure down to the penny how much it hurts or helps.

[BlackHole]

Google can't calculate how many people actually are going to donate, and how much. (And if they could, I would reconsider using their evil mind-control statistics software )

Anyway, I'm curious about the results.

- Black

[Sandurz]

Another suggestion: Make the online features (i.e. multiplayer, official mod server, etc.) awesome enough to convince people to buy the game. You can't pirate online features.

Well, that's not entirely true depending on how you go about it. If it's through Steam, or something like it, then it's as easy as someone posting the server crack.

[bigbutbald]

Steam offers lots of benefits to paying customers. It's so easy to buy a game, have it show up on your list, download it, have it auto-patch to the latest version. Thats a huge difference from having a game, say like GTA4 that had horrible DRM. It actually ran faster if you used a cracked launcher that disabled the protection.

Under the $5 donate model, say I pirate overgrowth, and then donate $5, does that give me a "proper" copy of the game? Do I get all single and multiplayer features?

I think you have 2 types of pirates. The first is your hardened pirate. He downloads loads of games. He only buys games that he really likes and wants to play online. His conscience isn't going to prick him for downloading another game, even if it is from a indie developer. Thus, he's not going to pay $5 because he has no reason to. Like I said he does this so often he doesn't feel bad about it.

The second type is the pirate that downloads the game because he wants to test it. IF this pirate ends up liking the game, he'll probably want to buy a copy of the game to have access to all the multiplayer features, etc. He has no reason to donate $5.

I recommend making downloading mods, textures, custom maps, campaigns, and everything that can be done through the game require a valid account. Something that is checked everytime you connect to the online service. Sure pirates can get their hands on mods and install them by hand, but I think it being soo much easier to do it ingame with a valid account will be a huge push to pirates to buy the game. Especially if there's gonna be great modding tools!

[XerxesQ]

The first is your hardened pirate. He downloads loads of games. He only buys games that he really likes and wants to play online. His conscience isn't going to prick him for downloading another game, even if it is from a indie developer. Thus, he's not going to pay $5 because he has no reason to. Like I said he does this so often he doesn't feel bad about it.

That's a pretty extreme misrepresentation. I'm sure there are people like that, but most "hardened" types aren't dumb or self-centered enough to believe the games they like playing will keep getting made if the developers aren't supported. The vast majority of Pirates (as opposed to the second, uncapitalized type, who usually don't identify with the Pirate movement) are simply early adopters of what the cultural and legal norms will be in the next 10-20 years.

They share games, movies, music, what have you, because they enjoy it. They're not unscrupulous, bloodthirsty thieves at heart. If they play or watch or listen to something great, they're a fan, and they want to support the creator (unless there's an arrangement where all their money would go to a giant corporation and never reach the artist, in which case they won't bother). It's equivalent to throwing a dollar into a street performer's guitar case after he's played three full songs for you. But much like how piracy was born from the demand for on-demand, Pirates who wish to pay want to contribute whatever amount they choose. That's why accepting donations of any amount is a very good thing to do.

Besides, a donate button would fit perfectly underneath the "email updates' box, or maybe in the header to the left of the IRC box.

[Jeff]

Google can't calculate how many people actually are going to donate, and how much. (And if they could, I would reconsider using their evil mind-control statistics software )

Anyway, I'm curious about the results.

- Black

Google can. You can track exactly how much you make versus a variety of metrics with Google Analytics, provided you set it up correctly.

[Jeff]

The first is your hardened pirate. He downloads loads of games. He only buys games that he really likes and wants to play online. His conscience isn't going to prick him for downloading another game, even if it is from a indie developer. Thus, he's not going to pay $5 because he has no reason to. Like I said he does this so often he doesn't feel bad about it.

That's a pretty extreme misrepresentation. I'm sure there are people like that, but most "hardened" types aren't dumb or self-centered enough to believe the games they like playing will keep getting made if the developers aren't supported. The vast majority of Pirates (as opposed to the second, uncapitalized type, who usually don't identify with the Pirate movement) are simply early adopters of what the cultural and legal norms will be in the next 10-20 years.

How do you reconcile this apologia with the fact that Lugaru was pirated crazily with not a single friendly pirate donation, though?

[tomascokis]

I think that there are the pirate crazies, the pirate testers and the poor pirate - the poor pirate cannot afford to pay for every game he likes and thus buys only a few, pirating the rest.

[Zhukov]

This thread reeks of naivety.

These concepts of 'poor pirate' or 'hardcore pirate' are, quite frankly, complete tripe. The idea of people paying for something that they have already obtained for free is downright laughable.

Think of all the pirated or copyright-violating songs/games/movies/whatever owned by all the people you know. Now count how many of those products were paid for afterwards.

That said, I would have thought that a donation button or some form couldn't hurt. However Jeff and his Google Analytics seem to think otherwise. I really have no idea how that works and am therefore not qualified to comment.

[Endoperez]

The idea of people paying for something that they have already obtained for free is downright laughable.

Not entirely. Some freeware and open source projects get lots of donations, and some people actually make a living out of them. For a few months after I got a working PayPal account, I put 5€ aside every month to support something I enjoyed. I think all the donations went to something I got for free, any way: webcomics, Dwarf Fortress etc. The people who donate to these free things are looking to "buy" it, in some way. They're the people who preorder Overgrowth. The ones who wouldn't buy it, probably won't donate either.

Some people may buy something they have pirated, so the idea itself is not laughable. Expecting it to make a difference in the total sales is. The ones who pay for something are the ones that might have bought it any way, and they are a very small minority.

[GDer]

It looks like people here live in countries that have the least amount of piracy. I've talked to a lot of pirates. Even those who are ~10 years old. Also it's hard time in this country so no one wants to spend money for something he got for free. Moreover, as those pirates are under the age "border" (18 in my country), they cannot pay. I support the idea of a donate button if it doesn't hurt the website. But I also doubt that pirates will pay. However, those who actually can, in my opinion, will consider it if they have such chance. You just have to help them in creating accounts and transferring money as simple as possible.

--
I'd support only one kind of DRM. If the game is cracked / pirated, game should show a donate button with some encouraging lines. As far as I know, no one has ever tried that yet so I doubt that crackers will remove this too.

[GreenFlame]

I quickly readed posts, may be someone already said it, but:

I think XerxesQ's idea about donating is very very good!!!!
If not the website - the GAME MAIN MENU should contain a donate button. Why not? May be you should call that button "Fan button".
Tere may be some Wolfire's history, some photoes, some developing story ^^... and "Support button" isnside of fan button? And near of it something like:


"We are small indie game studio and we would be thankful for any kind of support. Donates of every size from you are very useful. Even if you have a pirate copy - do not shy of that. By receiving donates we receiving more time working on game developing. Please also tell about us and our games to your friends. If you wanna share your ideas with us - please contact us.

Donate link
Contact link
Forums link
The Website's link
And may be a link to blog (with number of updates from last visit) like
Blog link (7)

"

I think fans will like it. May be even someone who already bought game will donate some moneys too. And those who will have pirate copies could be helpful too. So im sorry if i doubling someone's words, and sorry for my English.

[BlackHole]

Google can. You can track exactly how much you make versus a variety of metrics with Google Analytics, provided you set it up correctly.

Not while OG isn't released yet. Because the idea was that pirates were supposed to donate.
Offtopic: And still, Google Analytics is not almighty. For example, I'm invisible for them.

If not the website - the GAME MAIN MENU should contain a donate button. Why not? May be you should call that button "Fan button".
Tere may be some Wolfire's history, some photoes, some developing story ^^... and "Support button" isnside of fan button?

Or just a separated "About OG/Wolfire" section, linked by a button in the main menu. Directly showing it in the main menu might make people associate it with ingame ads, I think.

It looks like people here live in countries that have the least amount of piracy. I've talked to a lot of pirates. Even those who are ~10 years old. Also it's hard time in this country so no one wants to spend money for something he got for free. Moreover, as those pirates are under the age "border" (18 in my country), they cannot pay. I support the idea of a donate button if it doesn't hurt the website. But I also doubt that pirates will pay. However, those who actually can, in my opinion, will consider it if they have such chance. You just have to help them in creating accounts and transferring money as simple as possible.

The difference is what kind of pirates you encounter. While most pirates are just some people who don't want to pay for their games, there is also a group of pirates with honor. For example in "the scene" itself: all the crackers actually DO BUY the games they crack. They are not the guys who release the cracks into the wild, others do. Honorable pirates will actually buy the game if they like it, or at least donate. If I was pirating OG, I would definitely donate.

I'd support only one kind of DRM. If the game is cracked / pirated, game should show a donate button with some encouraging lines. As far as I know, no one has ever tried that yet so I doubt that crackers will remove this too.

Actually it was tried in some games, but no cracks were ever publicly released for these games, so I've got no idea how well that would have worked. But I definitely think that is a good idea.

- Black

[bigbutbald]

The first is your hardened pirate. He downloads loads of games. He only buys games that he really likes and wants to play online. His conscience isn't going to prick him for downloading another game, even if it is from a indie developer. Thus, he's not going to pay $5 because he has no reason to. Like I said he does this so often he doesn't feel bad about it.

That's a pretty extreme misrepresentation. I'm sure there are people like that, but most "hardened" types aren't dumb or self-centered enough to believe the games they like playing will keep getting made if the developers aren't supported. The vast majority of Pirates (as opposed to the second, uncapitalized type, who usually don't identify with the Pirate movement) are simply early adopters of what the cultural and legal norms will be in the next 10-20 years.

They share games, movies, music, what have you, because they enjoy it. They're not unscrupulous, bloodthirsty thieves at heart. If they play or watch or listen to something great, they're a fan, and they want to support the creator (unless there's an arrangement where all their money would go to a giant corporation and never reach the artist, in which case they won't bother). It's equivalent to throwing a dollar into a street performer's guitar case after he's played three full songs for you. But much like how piracy was born from the demand for on-demand, Pirates who wish to pay want to contribute whatever amount they choose. That's why accepting donations of any amount is a very good thing to do.

Besides, a donate button would fit perfectly underneath the "email updates' box, or maybe in the header to the left of the IRC box.

The pirate that you're presenting would no doubt buy a game if he liked it. Especially "being that all the money goes to the developer and not some mega-corp. (The mega-corp that, btw pays many millions to produce the game/movie/whatever in question.)

So if this pirate likes it alot, and yet isn't willing to pay more than $5, well, than your argument just falls flat. I can see that argument in a product like, say Office 2007. So full price is $300+. That is prohibitive for many people. The difference between $5 and $20-30 is not.

Why then should there be a donate button? Let them pay full price for it. A true fan will want the whole experience, online play being a big part of that experience. Thus, donating $5 doesn't validate his copy, and he gets nothing in return.

[TheBigCheese]

I think many of you guys are overestimating pirates.

While many places on the internet glorify pirates, most of them are not of the type who would donate. Most pirates are going to download the game, play it for a bit, get bored and leave.

While yes, a very small group will probably stick with it and get hooked on the game, most people will move on to a new game once they get bored. Because they have no monetary ties to the game, there is not as much incentive to stick with it, and much less to get involved in the community.

Like someone above said, many pirates crack games because they are not old enough to pay for them themselves or get a credit card and don't want to have to ask their parents to buy it for them.