september, and there hasn't been any news for months.

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Causeless
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september, and there hasn't been any news for months.

Post by Causeless » Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:45 pm

Now, I can understand updates taking months to make, I can understand the release date of updates being vague and unknown - but the one thing I absolutely cannot understand is why we aren't even being told what's happening anymore. There is absolutely *no* community involvement in the game anymore.

Now, I already know people are going to rush to this post, saying that games take time to make and that he's working on the next update. That's not my points. Game development is hard, and I understand that, but at this point it's getting insulting, and we aren't even told what's happening.

In the last year, there's barely been 2 major updates.

In the last year, this is the feature list of things added to the game that we've gotten:
AI scripts are more optimized to support more simultaneous characters
Ragdoll physics are more accurate and more efficient
Moved all inverse kinematics and local physics animation from engine to script
Improved chase AI
No disqualification for arena overkill
Updated weapon attachments for challenges since AI no longer grabs weapons in patrol
Increased enemy sight distance
Cat movement is much quieter
Improved animation retargeting
Changed unconscious ragdolls to be more limp
Characters drop combat stance when enemy is unseen or otherwise not a threat
Character loading works even if simplification fails
Enemies are alerted by collision
Debug keys can be toggled in settings
Improved leg IK to handle foot orientation and hip movement
Improved tail physics and tail collision with world geometry
Calibrated eye morphs so they can look at precise points in space
improved ear physics, ear collision, and idle ear rotation
better gravity on roll animation
new walk and sneak animations
fixed Mac text rendering
improved vertex bone weights for all characters
breathing animation
new idle behavior and weight shifting
Added seamless cubemap toggle (to fix visible lines on some GPUs)
Softened wolf fur normals

Fixed mass of wolf and female rabbit ragdolls
Character bone mass is proportional to the cube of character scale
Fixed a problem with sky rendering when there is no terrain
Fixed raider ear weights
Shift moves camera along camera's up vector instead of world's up vector
Fixed problem with floaty rolls
Clamped IK hip movement to reasonable range
New checksum for animations and character lod cache
Added sky rotation level parameter
Progress on exporting angelscript docs
Spawner no longer closes after spawning a new object
Attached objects work better with different scales
Reduced max time steps per frame to 4
Fixed slowdown when transitioning from ragdoll to animation

Self-documenting script registration
Attached objects can be manipulated with editor
Can attach groups to characters
Can save characters with attached objects
Can copy/paste/save/load connected objects
Fixed mass of wolf and female rabbit ragdolls
Character bone mass is proportional to the cube of character scale
Fixed a problem with sky rendering when there is no terrain
Fixed raider ear weights
Shift moves camera along camera's up vector instead of world's up vector
Fixed problem with floaty rolls
Clamped IK hip movement to reasonable range
New checksum for animations and character lod cache
Added sky rotation level parameter
Spawner no longer closes after spawning a new object
Attached objects work better with different scales
Fixed slowdown when transitioning from ragdoll to animation
Attached objects work with different character scales
Fixed Mac SDL framework
Fixed issue with "Texture format no GL_BGRA" with stabdecal.tga
Characters are immediately alerted when damaged in any way
Fixed character dragging when weapon is in offhand
Fixed persistent animation layers across reset
Fixed deleting characters with item objects connected
Path points can trigger wait, sit, sleep
Fixed dialogue editor undo/redo
Level objects can have detail objects
Any kind of object can be in a group
Telemetry profiling
Progress on native UI widgets
Can alt-drag multiple objects at once
Cleaned up editor snapping (and can start snapping in the middle of an action)
Attaching weapons and their scabbards to the same item slot puts one inside the other
That was a full year of work, and this is what we've gotten. Mostly bug fixes, and almost nothing new.

I'd like to say that in 1 year, Prison Architect has released a total of 12 major updates, and nearly every single one added an entire new game mechanic or deeply improved an existing one.

In 1 year, Rust has had 51 updates, most of them bringing some great new feature to the game. In that time it's gotten so many features that listing them all could barely fit in a book, let alone fit in this post.

In 1 year, Kerbal Space program has went from a beta to a finished game and released a couple of significant versions (and many minor updates), with a third soon coming up. They give constant updates on their progress, and their feature lists are full of giant game-changing mechanics and completely new features instead of tiny bug fixes.

In that 1 year, we've gotten some tail physics and minor bug fixes for Overgrowth. The thing thing is that isn't even an exaggeration - the biggest damn feature has been "Attaching weapons and their scabbards to the same item slot puts one inside the other".

Compared to KSP, where every feature they list usually include the word "overhaul", this is a joke.

Now I appreciate the good things Wolfire has done. I got Receiver for free, Low Light Combat, and Desperate Gods. However, I paid £30 for Overgrowth since I've bought it the biggest feature created has been arena mode.

I know that you might not be able to release updates faster, but can we at least get some actual news on what you are doing? Even if you can't release an update every week, or every month, or even every half year, can we at least get something like a weekly info dump of what you've been working on? Can we get a Twitter of the code commits you've made to the game?

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Surak
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Re: september, and there hasn't been any news for months.

Post by Surak » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:40 pm

There is communication in the form of OGWeekly. Despite its name it is not weekly anymore though, but biweekly (and just had a summer break). David and Aubrey talk about the state of the game there with Silverfish and Anton. The next episode is in 5 days: http://ogweekly.com/

I think this one will be an interesting episode. A lot has happened since the last one. A lot more people working on the game now.

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deldero
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Re: september, and there hasn't been any news for months.

Post by deldero » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:39 am

i think some of your examples are not to much comparable,

sure they came up with more stuff in less time, but compare the size of their teams, and what they are doing

OG is being made by how many peaple? 2-3(maybe more now, we will know pretty soon)

kerbal is being made by 15 peaple

as far as wikipeadia says.

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Squad

-the rust website does not show their team, only the "creator" i guess.

their game(or his game) dont have a story to worry about, and their idea is basicly unoriginal stalker/DAYZ/minecraft coobled togheter, even the developer admits that.

"Rust started off as a DayZ clone. But then we decided that we are sick of fighting zombies. And can’t compete with the Arma island in terms of landmarks and towns. So it’s in more of a STALKER kind of world where you build your own buildings. This also opens the way up for non zombie enemies, like mutants, wolves and whatever. But your biggest enemy is always going to be other players."

http://garry.tv/2013/06/21/the-story-of-rust/

it needs a bit less tought put into it, but who knows, i dint playd it, so i am probrably very wrong, and passed through many amazing mechanics that the game have.
**************************

-prison architect is a 2-d game, i dont know how hard is the development of a 2-d or a 3-d game world, but i think that a 3-d environment may make things a little harder to develop( on the world perspective sense).

clipping issues, shadows, ragdoll physics, camera, optimization etc...

david has being trying to hire more peaple to have the frequent and bigger updates that you and many other's wish, they will comunicate with us in 5 days so yeah, i think we will have ansers referent to david's quest for a bigger team.

i am not an expert on the other games, and i havent playd them, only saw them, and gamepaly fottage, i am not saying the devs of those games putted less or more effort as my knowledge of them and on overgrowth is limited, just bringin a prespective you might have skipped on the duration of your post's development.

i am always open to argue , and change my stance if a better anser shows up.

as of it now, wait for the og weekly, i predict somnthing great, wheter a great disapointment, or a big smile, is yet to be seen.

best of fortune.

PS:excuse my bad english, writting is not my strongest.

Causeless
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:37 pm

Re: september, and there hasn't been any news for months.

Post by Causeless » Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:03 pm

deldero wrote:i think some of your examples are not to much comparable,

sure they came up with more stuff in less time, but compare the size of their teams, and what they are doing

OG is being made by how many peaple? 2-3(maybe more now, we will know pretty soon)

kerbal is being made by 15 peaple

as far as wikipeadia says.

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Squad

-the rust website does not show their team, only the "creator" i guess.

their game(or his game) dont have a story to worry about, and their idea is basicly unoriginal stalker/DAYZ/minecraft coobled togheter, even the developer admits that.

"Rust started off as a DayZ clone. But then we decided that we are sick of fighting zombies. And can’t compete with the Arma island in terms of landmarks and towns. So it’s in more of a STALKER kind of world where you build your own buildings. This also opens the way up for non zombie enemies, like mutants, wolves and whatever. But your biggest enemy is always going to be other players."

http://garry.tv/2013/06/21/the-story-of-rust/

it needs a bit less tought put into it, but who knows, i dint playd it, so i am probrably very wrong, and passed through many amazing mechanics that the game have.
**************************

-prison architect is a 2-d game, i dont know how hard is the development of a 2-d or a 3-d game world, but i think that a 3-d environment may make things a little harder to develop( on the world perspective sense).

clipping issues, shadows, ragdoll physics, camera, optimization etc...

david has being trying to hire more peaple to have the frequent and bigger updates that you and many other's wish, they will comunicate with us in 5 days so yeah, i think we will have ansers referent to david's quest for a bigger team.

i am not an expert on the other games, and i havent playd them, only saw them, and gamepaly fottage, i am not saying the devs of those games putted less or more effort as my knowledge of them and on overgrowth is limited, just bringin a prespective you might have skipped on the duration of your post's development.

i am always open to argue , and change my stance if a better anser shows up.

as of it now, wait for the og weekly, i predict somnthing great, wheter a great disapointment, or a big smile, is yet to be seen.

best of fortune.

PS:excuse my bad english, writting is not my strongest.
Thank you very much for your well thought out and fair reply :)

You make many good points! The Rust dev team is currently about 12 or so people I think, so it's definitely a lot bigger.

You make a very good point about Prison Architect only being 2D. That definitely would decrease development time - but would it be fair to assume it would be by that much? Although 2d game development is easier, I still think development has been a lot faster, even relatively.

I think my annoyance is with the lack of news mostly. OGWeekly is ok, but it's hard to watch - needing to spend half an hour of time to figure out vague hints of how the game's development is going is pretty annoying.

I think a weekly update that listed what David and Aubrey have actually worked on would go a long way. Even if it's highly technical, it at least gives us some context into the development of the game - for example, Rust after changing game engines didn't release any updates for several months, but they still kept a methodical weekly blog of all the work they've been doing and the ideas they've tried out.

Thank you very much for your reply, again.

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underthedeep
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Re: september, and there hasn't been any news for months.

Post by underthedeep » Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:25 pm

Causeless wrote: I think my annoyance is with the lack of news mostly. OGWeekly is ok, but it's hard to watch - needing to spend half an hour of time to figure out vague hints of how the game's development is going is pretty annoying.

I think a weekly update that listed what David and Aubrey have actually worked on would go a long way. Even if it's highly technical, it at least gives us some context into the development of the game - for example, Rust after changing game engines didn't release any updates for several months, but they still kept a methodical weekly blog of all the work they've been doing and the ideas they've tried out.

Thank you very much for your reply, again.
This.

I sit at a desk 8 hours a day, and still find it a task to get through the full half hour (even as backround noise while working). A bulletin list, or something, that goes over the key points would be so helpful.

Part of what got everyone so hyped was the teams engagement with the community. I understand they are busy, and that it may not happen again as it did. Doesn't mean we can't miss it though. :/

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Silverfish
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Re: september, and there hasn't been any news for months.

Post by Silverfish » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:02 pm

underthedeep wrote:I sit at a desk 8 hours a day, and still find it a task to get through the full half hour (even as backround noise while working). A bulletin list, or something, that goes over the key points would be so helpful.
That's a good idea, I'll see if I can make something like a written overview of new OGWs happen.

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underthedeep
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Re: september, and there hasn't been any news for months.

Post by underthedeep » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:27 pm

Silverfish wrote: That's a good idea, I'll see if I can make something like a written overview of new OGWs happen.
You guys do great work, and I don't mean to come off as too critical. I personally think it would help with those whom are seeking updates, and then post about it here about the lack there of.

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Silverfish
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Re: september, and there hasn't been any news for months.

Post by Silverfish » Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:28 pm

Glad you like what we do, I'm always open to suggestions for improvements. And I agree that it would very likely help! :)

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Sehiro
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Re: september, and there hasn't been any news for months.

Post by Sehiro » Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:32 am

Just throwing this out there, but I got the impression that in every ogweekly the devs answer to questions with "We may think about this. We are thinking about this. That'd be a cool idea."
It might be just me, but I kinda don't remember them saying "we are doing this" except for the ambient light (this maybe was not even on ogweekly, but just on twitter) and Akazi Lugaru campaign.
Please don't bring up the throw aim, as it was made by a modder.

Again, might just be me being distracted, but every time when someone asks for updates and get said "check ogweekly, your updates're there" I can't help but think that even there hardly any updates can be seen.


In case my impression has actual bases, a written form of ogweekly where they don't answer questions, but say what they did in the last week would really really be a great idea.
+1 to that.


EDIT: My impression possibly doesn't have actual bases, forgot about this thread: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=37430
Again though, I dunna if in this thread there is for the majority stuff on which they actually worked (some for sure yes, light and new menu), or mainly cool ideas they will implement some day in the future, maybe.
In both cases an actual written weekly log of what they did in the week would be extremely appreciated. Without even considering how much it would help the devs themselves.

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Blackavar
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Re: september, and there hasn't been any news for months.

Post by Blackavar » Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:36 pm

One of these days I'm going to write a blog post for David and make him put it on the blog and the steam news section :P

He really ought to talk more

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Re: september, and there hasn't been any news for months.

Post by princecinnamonboots » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:24 pm

This game is going to take forever to be released lol

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rodeje25
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Re: september, and there hasn't been any news for months.

Post by rodeje25 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:38 pm

princecinnamonboots wrote:This game is going to take forever to be released lol
Did you know there are 18 part-timers and autious and silverfish have been hired?

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Silverfish
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Re: september, and there hasn't been any news for months.

Post by Silverfish » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:52 am

rodeje25 wrote:silverfish have been hired?
To clarify, I'm an intern, my internship ends at the end of January.

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rodeje25
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Re: september, and there hasn't been any news for months.

Post by rodeje25 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:21 am

Silverfish wrote:
rodeje25 wrote:silverfish have been hired?
To clarify, I'm an intern, my internship ends at the end of January.
And i think you should be given a 2 year contract immediatly after that :)

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