Invisible walls

[mphasis]

How about you have the endless terrain repeating then a mystic shaman rabbit woman appears and begs you not to go further and then an invincible enemy on the highest difficulty appears and challenges you to go further, slaughtering you in an impossible fight if you step past him.

I'm not a believer in infinite walls, and I think that the level designer should have a choice in what happens to the player if he leaves the map.

I do however think that taking an "invisible wall" and working it into the actual game itself nicely can improve a player's experience. For example in Battlefield 2, you were told that deserters would be shot and given a count down to return to the battlefield before you started loosing health and died, I thought that was good. It made the world actually feel open, unlike an invisible wall, but also gave the player an incentive not to leave the map.

So how about instead of thinking of the player leaving the map as "something undesirable" lets just think of it as another choice the player can make throughout the game with a consequence that doesn't have to be death.

If it was an island he could swim out, get exhausted and "drown" then wake up in one of the houses in town saying they found him washed up on the beach. These types of little, simple, actions with consequences really help pull me into a world, and not think "Oh, another invisible wall".

And random point, Half-life 2 is full of these types of little Easter eggs, and I loved them .

[Zhukov]

By far the best of the ideas suggested thus far is the 'infinite conveyer belt', a la Mario 64. In particular, it isn't too damaging to a player's suspension of disbelief. Heck, if it was really well implemented, the player might not even be sure it's happening.

Would an infinite conveyer belt solution be within wolfire's skill range?

Really, it's a mystery to me why people get exited about this. Is a plain ol' invisible wall really such a terrible thing?

[Ozymandias]

I like the Mario 'endless staircase idea', but it would be hard to implement since you can see behind you while walking forward, which you couldn't do in mario 64.

Mario 64 'endless staircase' essentially teleported you a dozen stairs back, so you would run and then it would just teleport you. The thing with land is that it all doesn't look the same in all directions so people will be able to tell if they are teleporting around everywhere.

Use the same method most MMO's do

What's that?

A bunch of stuff

Impossible enemy would be Whale Man

'deserters will be shot' would be 'Spontaneous Rabbit Explosion Syndrome' caused by attempting to walk off the flat edge of the Earth.

screen fading out and then coming back with a little explanation of what happened replaced with Turner refusing to go any further because he's afraid of falling off the flat edge of the Earth which would cause a seriously fatal case of aforementioned SRES. (because we know the only way to surpass the edge of the level is with the level select screen where you mysteriously teleport to the next level) followed by death.

[Groveller]

Have a warning (Turner: "I think I'm going the wrong way." "I'm definitely going the wrong way."), then a while later exit the level. You could then either do the level again, as if nothing had ever happened, or play it as though Turner had run off, abandoning whatever his mission was.

[Glabbit]

Invisible walls ftw D=

[tokage]

I would like to see something like endless repeating or random terrain. I think it would add greatly to the realism. If a player really feels like exploring untill the end of the map and doesn't pay attention from which direction he came from, he will just get lost. That is realistic, isn't it? If you try to explore a desert or a forest in the real world and don't pay attention you will get lost. Of course the level design should make relatively sure that the player doesn't wander off into the void just because he doesn't know where to go right from the start.
Actually letting Turner give a message like mentioned above, could also be fun. After some time he could say something like "Great, now I am completely lost.", "Which way was it again?" or even give verbal directions, that could guide you back, like indicating if it is the right direction you are going or not.

You should also think about the fact that if a player deliberately choose to wander off somewhere, he doesn't care about solving the level so much in that moment. From my perspective then it should be no problem to just let him restart the level from a menu or something to bring him back on track if he gets lost.

[Glabbit]

I would like to see something like endless repeating or random terrain. I think it would add greatly to the realism. If a player really feels like exploring untill the end of the map and doesn't pay attention from which direction he came from, he will just get lost. That is realistic, isn't it? If you try to explore a desert or a forest in the real world and don't pay attention you will get lost. Of course the level design should make relatively sure that the player doesn't wander off into the void just because he doesn't know where to go right from the start.
Actually letting Turner give a message like mentioned above, could also be fun. After some time he could say something like "Great, now I am completely lost.", "Which way was it again?" or even give verbal directions, that could guide you back, like indicating if it is the right direction you are going or not.

You should also think about the fact that if a player deliberately choose to wander off somewhere, he doesn't care about solving the level so much in that moment. From my perspective then it should be no problem to just let him restart the level from a menu or something to bring him back on track if he gets lost.

Okay, that's a given. I vote for Tokage's plan =D

[GDer]

Realism sucks. It must never be a reason for adding and removing something. It is a reason for Far Cry 2, GTA4 failure. As you can't add radiation zones there, you'll need to stick to walls. Doesn't really care - visible or invisible. Getting lost is not good in a game because game must give only fun. It may be "Oh yeah, it's so real" and "Alt+F4" after that only. However, punishing for going outside could be good if there's a good reason for it to be there and if the hidden things are hidden in places that will always be different from the punishing zones. So, good old walls FTW.

[Viking Zippy]

If the 'endless staircase' idea isn't viable, and water can be implemented, even as a basic ocean perimeter, I'm all for the whaleman ... imagine a new player's surprise when they reach the edge of the map, start descending into the water (which would slowly ramp downwards), and then out of nowhere, this thing rises up from the deep and pulverizes the wayward player

I would like to see something like endless repeating or random terrain. I think it would add greatly to the realism. If a player really feels like exploring untill the end of the map and doesn't pay attention from which direction he came from, he will just get lost.

I do like this idea (it was excellent in Black Shades), but it would also very easily enable an obnoxious player to go running off into the distance and completely ignore the messages you mentioned, which could ruin the game for the rest of the players

[Glabbit]

which could ruin the game for the rest of the players

How so?

[Ozymandias]

The thing about black shades was it took place in a city, and making square buildings and such isn't as difficult as making believable looking terrain that goes on for what seems to be forever. Also, I was just jokinga bout the whale man and the spontaneous rabbit explosion syndrome (SRES) but my idea about going to the world map still stands. it would actually still considered to be an invisible barrier, just a different kind I guess...

[Viking Zippy]

which could ruin the game for the rest of the players

How so?

Ah, I had a feeling I should have elaborated

Anyway, say you're in the middle of a game, and some madman decides to run off into infinite and never come back. What to do then? If there aren't any team markers, it would be impossible to find them, and even if there were team markers, how could you possibly catch up?

Granted, most people here seem to be the rational type and won't simply run off the map, but it's bound to happen eventually

I was just jokinga bout the whale man and the spontaneous rabbit explosion syndrome (SRES) but my idea about going to the world map still stands. it would actually still considered to be an invisible barrier, just a different kind I guess...

Quite the contrary, I think it would be awesome if the whaleman was actually in there, just waiting to squish wayward players

[Glabbit]

Okay, I was actually thinking in single-player mode.

I'd say the single-player mode would work very nicely with Tokage's suggestion.

Multiplayer? Your best bet actually would be the SRES, in my opinion.
Comparable to Star Wars Battlefront: *wanders off* Full-screen message + voice: "You are leaving the battlefield! Return at once!" *continues wandering*
BOOM!

That's how I see it should work.

[Eric]

multi-player definitely needs a death penalty, otherwise you could use the edge of the map to your advantage. Although it would be better for the map to just be enclosed for multi-player, and probably feasible.

[wormguy]

Invisible walls shatter suspension of disbelief. To those of you who are saying that it's just a game and it shouldn't matter: you're wrong. Creating an enjoyable videogame is first and foremost about maintaining the illusion of whatever it is you're creating. Overgrowth seems to be focusing on terrain in wide-open spaces, and invisible walls would just break that completely.

I feel the solution used in the original Lugaru was entirely adequate (infinitely repeating terrain, at least if I remember correctly), although if you want to find an alternate solution I'm sure you could come up with something creative.