Fight System Second Draft

[GaGrin]

I suppose my point is that in each of the longsword examples, the strike is made by a second or third motion AFTER the block. Putting your weapon in the way isn't difficult. But if your opponent knows what they're doing, of course they're still going to take off your head.

Also those examples are to show off the techniques. You wouldn't catch the detail if they did it at a realistic speed.

[Renegade_Turner]

Ninjas don't block. They dodge. Dodging is more exciting. Blocking is rather boring, unless there is an opportunity for block-counters.

[GaGrin]

Re-reading David's post it seems it might be a moot point. Given its range-based I can imagine a majority of timed-blocks will actually end up as grapples anyway. Have to see how this draft version works.

I'm curious to see if tap-moving for dodging will really work or not - particularly if your character is already on the move.

[TheBigCheese]

I'm curious to see if tap-moving for dodging will really work or not - particularly if your ch

I would think that there would be a specified dodge button similar to Lugaru, if you mean double tapping a movement key to dodge.

I always found double tapping difficult to use effectively. It's awkward, and hard to time.

[GaGrin]

If you read David's recent "second draft" post he's planned to have a context based move = dodge command.

So if you tap left at just the right moment, you perform a dodge to the left. Which sounds neat, but I can see potential issues unless its very responsive. Its also why I'd like a block even if its simply a solid block and not representive of a guard.

In anycase, I'm looking forward to trying it out and giving my opinions.

[Zantalos]

I suppose my point is that in each of the longsword examples, the strike is made by a second or third motion AFTER the block. Putting your weapon in the way isn't difficult. But if your opponent knows what they're doing, of course they're still going to take off your head.

Also those examples are to show off the techniques. You wouldn't catch the detail if they did it at a realistic speed.

That's what I mean if your opponent knows what he's doing it's very hard to block his attack, and if he doesn't well then it's easy. IMO it's a lot easier to learn how to strike than to block which is why most beginners in the game I play dodge instead of block, because it's hard.

My point was that if blocking was easy you should be able to block all of those motions not just the first. Why doesn't the guy block the side swing, and then block the under swing as well if blocking is so easy? I mean, he only has to move his weapon a few inches for each block while the other guy has to move his several feet for each attack, it should be easy to block a flurry of swings right?

[GaGrin]

Yes - and if they weren't showing off techniques you'd see a different result. Striking and purposely getting round a guard are different levels of skill, in much the same way blocking and countering are.

I don't see any reason we shouldn't have both.

I'm sorry if I'm missing the point, but it sounds like either you'd prefer there be no blocks/guards at all, or you think that I want unbreakable/perfect defence.

With a weapon I'd expect someone concentrating on defence to be able to consistantly protect themselves from a blows from a single opponent of equal skill. Not forever, and certainly not perfectly with no effect, fatigue or reaction, but certainly for a few strikes.

And as for getting round guards - there are lots and lots of techniques for that, but its not quite as simple as just attacking.

[GaGrin]

Sorry - Double post.

[Zantalos]

Yes - and if they weren't showing off techniques you'd see a different result. Striking and purposely getting round a guard are different levels of skill, in much the same way blocking and countering are.

I don't see any reason we shouldn't have both.

I'm sorry if I'm missing the point, but it sounds like either you'd prefer there be no blocks/guards at all, or you think that I want unbreakable/perfect defence.

With a weapon I'd expect someone concentrating on defence to be able to consistantly protect themselves from a blows from a single opponent of equal skill. Not forever, and certainly not perfectly with no effect, fatigue or reaction, but certainly for a few strikes.

And as for getting round guards - there are lots and lots of techniques for that, but its not quite as simple as just attacking.

I don't want both. I don't want to have a 'aim for weapon' button and then have a separate 'aim for person' button. Every strike should be aimed at the person, and it's up to the other guy to block it, why make it separate? I thought that was the weakest part in Assassin's Creed's combat to have a separate 'break defense' attack.

I much prefer Lugaru's one button attack. You don't get a magic, fool proof, break defense attack, you just attack, and if the other guy doesn't block right, he gets disarmed. It's much easier and more realistic. I only wish in real life there was a special move I could do to make defense breaks that disarms the opponent if he is in 'block mode' , but there isn't. I've witnessed a lot of sword disarms and it happens randomly because the other guy screws up and loses control of his weapon and because of this randomness, sword disarms are a lot cooler when it happens.

In my opinion having a toggle for blocking will slow down the game. And then having a separate move designed to get around blocking will clumsy up the action and it won't make sense. I still don't know what to do in Assassins Creed when an enemy throws a break defense move, it doesn't make combat harder, it's just frustrating and screws up the flow.

[GaGrin]

I didn't say it should be a seperate button - guarding and attacks are part of context so why shouldn't some kind of break move be?

Maybe I've been playing too much Sword of the Samurai, but I love the ability to have tactics based on your opponents stance rather than just simple action:reaction. Besides, if you've played the current combat build you'll notice blocking is hardly overpowered at the moment - you can just step in and perform a throw.

[Zantalos]

What do you mean by making the break move context sensitive?

I loved Sword of The Samurai, that game is sick. I wish it got a remake because it has so much depth to it, but the one on one duels were my least favorite activities. For me, no where near as fun as the duels in Sid Meier's Pirates! The duels were just clumsy, I could win them, but the tactic I used was just chop, chop, step back, chop, chop, chop, step back, chop, chop, chop... There was a block move that the computer used all the time, but it didn't help me at all. I don't even know what you mean by using tactics based on your opponent's stance, it was a cat and mouse game, he had simple reactions to your actions and would eventually do what you wanted.


I just don't like a block stance. I think it would be cool to have like a Lugaru "shift" type move that instead of reversing attacks when timed perfectly, it could block attacks and be a lot more lenient if it wasn't timed exactly right. Mainly though, instead of holding it down to automatically block a flurry of attacks, each click blocks for like half a second and blocks exactly one attack and then you have to click it again. I want some form of interactivity with the blocking, so that you can block good, block poorly, or block attacks that aren't there and get flat footed or something.

[GaGrin]

Ah - misunderstanding there. While Sid Meier's Sword of the Samurai IS a great game, I was talking about KENGO 2.