Petition for the Phoenix Engine

[biztone]

Now I'm just curious to see how many of you out there would jump at the Idea of Overgrowth's Phoenix Engine being availible as an open source engine once the game is completed. I mean full on access in terrain editing, Character models, the whole 9 yards.

So I would like to be the first to start and sign an electronic Petition on this forum page:
Please Post your name for validation and leave a comment if you like on what you would do with the power of God:

Biztone
Would create my teams upcoming title "Shadow Legion" knowing that this engine was intentional designed for Ninjas, Animals, and Ass Kicking

[Count Roland]

the word you're looking for I believe would be "petition" as a partition is par·ti·tion (pär-tshn)
n.
1.
a. The act or process of dividing something into parts.
b. The state of being so divided.

As to it being open source I don't particularly see a need, because as far as I can tell if I felt so inclined I could basically mod it into an almost entirely different game fairly easily and release that free to everyone who bought OG, no reason for the engine to be open source imeo. But than again I'm sure someone can think of a good reason.

[Silverfish]

I mean full on access in terrain editing, Character models, the whole 9 yards.

You can already do that, plus you'll be able to change all gameplay aspects and make your own gameplay using AngelScript. You can't make a separate game but you can make a total conversion.

[biztone]

That is true but this wasn't exactly free....nor is any source code because you still have to purchasethe game as well as others must do in order to enjoy your mod. I feel Wolfire would benefit from this as it could provide extra funding for upcoming titles if not launch a even bigger name for their selfs. But I guess we will what to see what the furture has in store for us

[Markuss]

it is open source isn't it? being open source doesn't mean other companies can use it comercially for free, its not general public licence, is it?

[Swordarm]

Not a good idea since it's Wolfire's Engine that will be used for future projects and might even be licensed to other companies. KEEP THE SOURCE CODE. Make it mod friendly (it is) but keep it.

VOTING AGAINST OPEN SOURCE.

[Lotus Wolf]

Me too, the only reason wolfire released lugaru's source is that the code was a mess, and it was not as easily modifiable as OG will be. OG should come with all the tools you need to make a completely different game without touching the engine or source code.

[Renegade_Turner]

If this were a poll I'd say the "FUCK NO" option would be winning right now.

[quadomatic]

There's no real reason to open source the engine. Wolfire is making it plenty easy to make mods and total conversions to Overgrowth without access to source code.

I'd prefer they hold onto the source code for their own sake. If anything, they should license the engine. Somebody might be interested, and it'd be nice for Wolfire to get paid handsomely for their hard work.

[biztone]

Look I have nothing against modding games but noone can share in the mods unless they also purchase the game. For pepole wanting to develop stand alone titles but don't have the man power to create what Wolfire has done. It would be nice to have a engine that allows a user to go in and create an entire game from the ground up with wolfire tool features. All they would have to do is create a few more user friendly tool set options like terrain editor, 3D model importing, and Scripting tool (for NPC's and AI's).

This would be one of the best if not the only engine that meets the needs of an Avg Indie Game Developer. As long as wolfire doesn't forget where they come from and remember that the Indie and the Mod community pockets don't run that deep. Its is a huge possibily of making Wolfire bigger then expected, seriuosly how many gamers out there have and idea but can get started since the other engine availible require you to major in rocket science (UDK and SDK). Thats over whelming for some and turns alot of people away. Granted you must learn some code in order to understand the basics of video game creation but this would streamline a lot of striving developers to actually create their desired stand alone title. Wolfire of course benefits from monies, logo placement and development. But again will we see

[fenixkane]

I asked a question about being able to make a stand alone title earlier. The response I got was that if you really needed access to the source code and wanted to sell your game they were open to cutting a deal (Aka: Licensing the engine). (I apologize if my interpretation is incorrect, please correct me if I am wrong.)
I personally think this is very reasonable and demanding they open source the hard work they have put into this engine just because people don't want to buy their game is very unreasonable.
What I would suggest is proposing to them that if they reached a certain milestone (for example making $1,000,000 from Overgrowth sales) they would open source the engine code (but not assets). Thats just a suggestion however.

[Endoperez]

For pepole wanting to develop stand alone titles but don't have the man power to create what Wolfire has done.

This is your problem right there. You want something that's very expensive to make, and you can't pay for it. There's no logical argument you can come up with that amounts to anything more than "please, pretty please, would you kindly?" - and regardless of what you might have heard, that rarely works in the real world.

Now, it's a common mistake to make. There's an excellent parody video which replaces the usual "special effects, software, 3d graphics simulation" stuff with real-world items. The scary thing about the video is the comments - over 1500 comments that amount to "YES! it's EXACTLY like that! I'll have to show this the enxt customer that doesn't get it!"





With that out of the way, what kind of game are you planning to do? There are several free or very cheap game engines that you can use.
Unreal Development Kit is free these days (without the assets), and the Unreal engine+game+videotutorial deals are very, VERY economical, and the video tuts are excellent. It doesn't have rigging or animation editors, but it has excellent material editor, and Kismet can do all kinds of stuff like moving platforms and elevators and opening doors etc etc. It's still widely used, and the next Unreal game/engine will probably be similar, if/when a new one comes.

Unity 3D is free, it does have an animation tool (but no rigging), and it comes with some free assets... But it's VERY barebones, so you need to code in pretty much everything. The games made in it work in both Windows and Mac, there are commercial versions available that can make Wii and iPhone games too, and it can even make browser-based games (although those need Unity browser add-on so the "mnarket" is much more limited than that of Flash-based games).

I worked on Goblin's Greed in my school, and it uses Unity. We had only two programmers, no previous experience in managing a project this size and the school bought new computers last January, so the game ended horribly unoptimized. Even the intro lags horribly unless you have a new computer. Regardless, we made that in four months with two programmers and a bunch of artists; with better management, more programmers and more experience as artists we might've gotten a playable game out of it. And no offense to Wolfire, but it will be a while before the Phoenix engine can be used in a project like that.

[Renegade_Turner]

That seems like an exaggeration of the Open Account form of business. A trusted client begins to receive goods on credit, with the presumption that payment will arrive at a later. It's pretty much the accepted form of payment in the business world. I'm not saying the "Do it this time for free, next time I'll pay you." thing works. It definitely doesn't work with a first client. Try that with a business and you'll be told where to go, depending on the business I suppose. It depends on the bargaining power of the parties and who needs the business the most. If the vendor really badly needs the business, he almost doesn't have a choice if a big firm comes in. The good thing with a big firm is you can agree to whatever terms they give you on the contract as long as they at least say you'll get paid, so if you don't get paid it's a big firm and will probably have the money, i.e. won't be insolvent. Still though, standard practice is that for the first 3 transactions between two parties there'll be payment up front, then after that if the relationship is going well they'll have an open account. Kind of like a couple agreeing to move in together, but shit still isn't free and you're going to have to pay for it. Lol silly simile.

[Odin]

If you want a free engine, use Ogre.

Don't get me wrong, I would definitely admire Wolfire even more, if they decide to go open source, but from a business point of view this just doesn't make any sense for now.

[dra6o0n]

You shouldn't expect to get freebies, especially that soon.
I guess society has become too spoiled with freebie because of the internet, and there's no resource that they could tap in to clean that up, since everything in the world is so screwed up, that people would rather escape to the internet, thinking it's their "safe place" when in fact it's the opposite.

Just because the internet lets you access to some free stuff, doesn't mean you don't have to work to get any other stuff.

So in the end. Nope, no source code. Yet. Give Wolfire another few years until Overgrowth grows old, and THEN they might consider releasing the code, when something else is better.

To them, it's like giving away a child before it even grew up... Think about it.