Ya, that would be a very important factor. I just didn't want to focus entirely on one side too much, I think shields would be an awesome combat addition.
Not to mention giving characters options of both tank and agressive styles. I mean, two styles? Thats's double the gameplay! Add another and it would triple, multiclassing should be an easy option too.
Additions to Lugaru 2: Blocking/Shields
I know this thread is kind of old, but I thought of a great way to implement blocks, reversals, and disarming.
You press shift during an attack to block, and if your block is successful you press shift again quickly to reverse/disarm. This would make it easy to block but a bit harder to reverse/disarm. Computer characters would mainly block and reverse or disarm less often this gets you out of the scenario where a weapon is constantly changing hands from the player to the enemy.
You press shift during an attack to block, and if your block is successful you press shift again quickly to reverse/disarm. This would make it easy to block but a bit harder to reverse/disarm. Computer characters would mainly block and reverse or disarm less often this gets you out of the scenario where a weapon is constantly changing hands from the player to the enemy.
Good Idea, but...
Why not make it a hold and release function like reversing high kicks?
If you press the key in time you will defend - but if you release it at the correct time you will counter/riposte, reverse or disarm (dependent on context of course).
I just don't like the idea of having to double tap a key, and I think the ease of the controls was one of the things that helped the fluid combat in the original Lugaru.
Just my opinion of course, but I think that would be simpler to control while still requiring the same skill of timing.
If you press the key in time you will defend - but if you release it at the correct time you will counter/riposte, reverse or disarm (dependent on context of course).
I just don't like the idea of having to double tap a key, and I think the ease of the controls was one of the things that helped the fluid combat in the original Lugaru.
Just my opinion of course, but I think that would be simpler to control while still requiring the same skill of timing.
I think the main reason you wouldn't need blocking in Lugaru is because of the attack system. The attacks are much more accurate and have a decent stopping power behind them (enough to knock you off your feet), than your average beat-em up (or any beat-em up that I've seen). Anyways, since you won't be seeing that 8 hit combo attack, you really don't need a block move that much (lot's of the moves are so strong blocking wouldn't make sense, particularly against things like the double punch).
The thing about weapon reversals is because that's how it should be. When you are unarmed, you can't just block something like a sword attack with your hands; basically, disarming is your only option. Anything else besides a dodge, would almost certainly bring about your doom.
That being said, blocking moves could still be implemented more than how they are right now. I like the idea of seeing more intuative control like the hold and release function. In fact, I think almost all defensive counters should be seperated into these two parts (like how the round house kick is, the duck and grab). The first move could be the duck or block move, while the proper release would execute the end attack. This would give you the option of doing more blocking and avoidance moves, in case you don't have the time to do the full reversal when engaging multiple enemies.
I'm pretty much saying exactly what GaGrin is.
The thing about weapon reversals is because that's how it should be. When you are unarmed, you can't just block something like a sword attack with your hands; basically, disarming is your only option. Anything else besides a dodge, would almost certainly bring about your doom.
That being said, blocking moves could still be implemented more than how they are right now. I like the idea of seeing more intuative control like the hold and release function. In fact, I think almost all defensive counters should be seperated into these two parts (like how the round house kick is, the duck and grab). The first move could be the duck or block move, while the proper release would execute the end attack. This would give you the option of doing more blocking and avoidance moves, in case you don't have the time to do the full reversal when engaging multiple enemies.
I'm pretty much saying exactly what GaGrin is.
Re: Good Idea, but...
I really agree with this.GaGrin wrote:Why not make it a hold and release function like reversing high kicks?
If you press the key in time you will defend - but if you release it at the correct time you will counter/riposte, reverse or disarm (dependent on context of course).
Yeah, me too. I think that's because he's right ;)Zantalos wrote:I'm pretty much saying exactly what GaGrin is.
I suppose, with the physics and automatic gravity center compensation mechanic, the difference between stagger and fall is only a matter of making a rabbit's reactions slower when they're tired? This whole system already looks so good.David wrote:There will probably not be any way to manually block, but if you are not too tired, you will protect yourself automatically when hit, and usually get staggered rather than knocked entirely off your feet.
I've just noticed another (possible) advantage of having a hold/release control and thats reversing reversals.
I see the flow as follows:
Player A: Attack (Press Attack button)
Player B: Defend (Hold Defend button)
Player B: Reversal (Release Defend button just as attack lands)
Player A: Escape (Hold Defend button)
Player A: Reversal (Release Defend button just as reversal attack lands)
Player B: Escape (Press Defend button)
Obviously this only works when the reversal is an attack, and the timing would be very difficult to get as this is a very fast reaction. I would argue that this would be the limit of any actions as any more than this and you are pretty much tapping the defend/crouch key.
That said I can see the benefits of Davids auto-block system with the context based attack system, provided that there are ways round it. That could be as simple as you cannot auto-defend while staggered or for a short period after (forcing you to dodge or reverse unless you want to get hit).
I suppose I'd like to see weapons used in a defensive as well as offensive manner. Swords and sheilds are as much about defence as attack - and I felt that I was just as vulnerable with a sword as I was without one in Lugaru. Infact I often felt like I was just giving my enemy my weapon so I could die on it - but thats cos I'm fairly poor at this great game.
Auto-block would certainly help new players and take some of the edge off the learning curve. And from the sounds of things it would also be another good reason to keep Turner in tip-top condition so that he's fit to fight and defend himself.
I see the flow as follows:
Player A: Attack (Press Attack button)
Player B: Defend (Hold Defend button)
Player B: Reversal (Release Defend button just as attack lands)
Player A: Escape (Hold Defend button)
Player A: Reversal (Release Defend button just as reversal attack lands)
Player B: Escape (Press Defend button)
Obviously this only works when the reversal is an attack, and the timing would be very difficult to get as this is a very fast reaction. I would argue that this would be the limit of any actions as any more than this and you are pretty much tapping the defend/crouch key.
That said I can see the benefits of Davids auto-block system with the context based attack system, provided that there are ways round it. That could be as simple as you cannot auto-defend while staggered or for a short period after (forcing you to dodge or reverse unless you want to get hit).
I suppose I'd like to see weapons used in a defensive as well as offensive manner. Swords and sheilds are as much about defence as attack - and I felt that I was just as vulnerable with a sword as I was without one in Lugaru. Infact I often felt like I was just giving my enemy my weapon so I could die on it - but thats cos I'm fairly poor at this great game.
Auto-block would certainly help new players and take some of the edge off the learning curve. And from the sounds of things it would also be another good reason to keep Turner in tip-top condition so that he's fit to fight and defend himself.
ingeniousmarmorek wrote:I know this thread is kind of old, but I thought of a great way to implement blocks, reversals, and disarming.
You press shift during an attack to block, and if your block is successful you press shift again quickly to reverse/disarm. This would make it easy to block but a bit harder to reverse/disarm. Computer characters would mainly block and reverse or disarm less often this gets you out of the scenario where a weapon is constantly changing hands from the player to the enemy.
*speechless*-
Colicedus
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I Think Parry should be included in combat with weaponry.There are no really sword battles in Lugaru.
You attack, he attacks, you attack, he reverses, finish.
We need some possibilty to defend yourself without doing a reversal.
When some one swings the attack, you quickly press attack while facing them and if its not too late you will perform a weapon Parry, leaving the enemy vulnerable for a second for an attack.
With shields or bucklers, I think they should prevent damage while standing in front of some one, automatically blocking. I also think that a shield could be lifted and dropped to with the F. and R Keys when equipped.
Come to think of it, Pressing F and R could make you block High and Low.
and with a chainsaw, it could make the blade stick out ether side or front.
Hey, parry is already something you can do in L1, it's even the same as the way you describe it. It would be a sin if this feature was not carried over from L1 to L2!
I prefer having commonly used commands (such as defend) on the mouse rather than the keyboard, it just tends to feel smoother. Perhaps reversals could be done with some cleverness, for example: (this is kinda long and very convoluted, skip to the end for a quick summary)
The player has dropped their weapon after a long and tiring fight and a clever parry by their opponent. However, they still have their shield, since it happens to be strapped to their arm. It could be a tortoiseshell shield, since there used to be a Japanese fighting style based around the use of one. Anyways, the opponent, sensing victory, begins an attack, in this example a midsection thrust. The player, and this is my only argument for a manual defend button, raises their shield, and when the attack lands, quickly flicks to the right, towards the inside of their stance (assuming the player has their shield on the left hand). Then, physics taking over (hopefully), the shield should deflect the opponents weapon, the opponent's momentum causing the weapon to continue along the now trajectory. Now, the player is facing a part of their opponent's weapon. In this example, it's a spear, and the wooden shaft is tantalisingly close to your empty right hand. Pressing the attack button causes you to quickly grab the spear, and a quick struggle ensues where (and I know you'll all hate me for this) rapid pressing of attack will determine the winner. The player wins and wrenches the spear from the opponent's hands, who is then pulled forward onto their face. The player also drops the shield since it's a two-handed spear and it would only encumber efficient use. As the opponent gets to their feet, a brutal swipe or stab to the head finishes them for good. The player could then keep the spear, or alternatively drop it, retrieve the shield and the weapon they lost previously, and continue on their merry way.
In short: defend, use physics to deflect the opponent's attack, press attack to initiate a struggle for the weapon (or not), if you win, you get a new weapon, dropping anything in your off-hand if the new weapon is two-handed, kill the SOB whose weapon you just stole, continue on your merry way.
EDIT: Or, alternatively, it could be the one who is less tired gets the weapon. The attacker is at a disadvantage because they're off-balance, however it can only be done if the defender has no weapon, and if they've lost their weapon it's usually (in my idea, anyway) because they're tired and couldn't hold on to it, so it would be pretty close 90% of the time.
I prefer having commonly used commands (such as defend) on the mouse rather than the keyboard, it just tends to feel smoother. Perhaps reversals could be done with some cleverness, for example: (this is kinda long and very convoluted, skip to the end for a quick summary)
The player has dropped their weapon after a long and tiring fight and a clever parry by their opponent. However, they still have their shield, since it happens to be strapped to their arm. It could be a tortoiseshell shield, since there used to be a Japanese fighting style based around the use of one. Anyways, the opponent, sensing victory, begins an attack, in this example a midsection thrust. The player, and this is my only argument for a manual defend button, raises their shield, and when the attack lands, quickly flicks to the right, towards the inside of their stance (assuming the player has their shield on the left hand). Then, physics taking over (hopefully), the shield should deflect the opponents weapon, the opponent's momentum causing the weapon to continue along the now trajectory. Now, the player is facing a part of their opponent's weapon. In this example, it's a spear, and the wooden shaft is tantalisingly close to your empty right hand. Pressing the attack button causes you to quickly grab the spear, and a quick struggle ensues where (and I know you'll all hate me for this) rapid pressing of attack will determine the winner. The player wins and wrenches the spear from the opponent's hands, who is then pulled forward onto their face. The player also drops the shield since it's a two-handed spear and it would only encumber efficient use. As the opponent gets to their feet, a brutal swipe or stab to the head finishes them for good. The player could then keep the spear, or alternatively drop it, retrieve the shield and the weapon they lost previously, and continue on their merry way.
In short: defend, use physics to deflect the opponent's attack, press attack to initiate a struggle for the weapon (or not), if you win, you get a new weapon, dropping anything in your off-hand if the new weapon is two-handed, kill the SOB whose weapon you just stole, continue on your merry way.
EDIT: Or, alternatively, it could be the one who is less tired gets the weapon. The attacker is at a disadvantage because they're off-balance, however it can only be done if the defender has no weapon, and if they've lost their weapon it's usually (in my idea, anyway) because they're tired and couldn't hold on to it, so it would be pretty close 90% of the time.
You know, one of the greatest feature L1 has to offer is the simple controls. On many fighting games, it requires complex combinations to pull of a move, with Lugaru you just need to left click to attack. They probably won't want to add too many more controls to deal with and lose this perk. Maybe we're over thinking this whole thing...