Additions to Lugaru 2: Open-ended-ness

Nuky · Post by **Nuky** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:40 pm

bob wrote:I like the circle idea, but the auto-quicksave aspect could cause issues. Having to conciously quicksave is very important in my opinion.

They autosave would save continuosly from beginning to end, but would be behind on time as for about 7 minutes or so, so you wouldn't lose too much progress when you die. Also, manually saving continuously is cheating imho

"Wow, I killed one, and there comes one more *save* kill *save* go 50 meter *save* go some more *rest and save*"

Grmble... I just ripped my jacket

Post by **Jeff** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:10 pm

Quick save is kind of lame. It sucked in Oblivion where you could just quick save before picking someone's pockets or doing anything with possible consequences. They might as well have just put in an undo command in the game, it totally ruins the feeling of danger.

Post by **Eric** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:47 pm

ok I like what I hear. I was trying to say that you should have to quick save manually because I was invisioning these circles being smaller than a 7 min radius (or something there of).

Here is my idea that is basically a slight evolution of Nuky's:
Ok, as you start the game, let's imagine a fairly large (5-7 min radius) and invisible circle around you. As soon as you walk to the edge of this fairly large circle, it disappears, and another one gets created around your position. When this new circle is created it is a quicksave and this is where you will "resurrect" if you die. This will be kinda like a dynamic temporarily saving point. Also, if you are idling around one spot, the radius of the circle will slowly decrease, but until you reach the edge of the circle again no quicksave will occur.
Also, keep in mind that anything you pick up will not be "saved" until you reach the edge of your current circle. Basically each quick save will take into account your health, other vital stats David may choose to use, your backpack contents, your equipped gear and your quest status.
Edit: Also, an autosave cannot occur while you are in combat, if you reach the edge of the circle while in combat the system defaults into a different mode where you get a quicksave at the end of the battle and the point where the battle ended is the center of the new circle. This will mainly help the player not have to load in the middle of a battle, and it will allow the player to have no conern for where they move during the battle (other than battle strategy).

@Jeff: So you are saying that everything you do in Oblivion ischeating since I see you quick save all the time; fair enough. PS good luck on your project, maybe I will see you before Monday.

Post by **David** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:33 pm

His point is that allowing quicksave is like setting debug/cheat mode on by default.

Post by **Eric** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:36 pm

I know, and I agree. I was (badly) making fun of Jeff's Oblivion play style.

Zantalos · Post by **Zantalos** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:37 pm

I dunno, I couldn't tell the difference between Bob's and Nuky's savepoint system. But they were both good. It's either have the Final Fantasy thing where you can only save at the spaced out specific spots in the game (anywhere on the overview map), make it save before each "mission," or just save anywhere which means people could quick save too. Nuky's (/bob) save thing would be the most fair and make the most sense, that would make a good "general save thing" if possible.

But I think that the difficulty should also effect your saving points. Fallout:Tactics (wasn't as good as one or two, but realtime fighting was fun) had that mode called... I don't remember what it was called, maybe 'tough guy' option. That made it so you could only save between missions (no quick saves), but it also gave you a bonus, in Tactics it gave a 15% experience booster.

Beginners should be able to quicksave when they want, experts should have to clear the area first. Little rewards should be given to players who play with hard mode, it could be anything from bonuses to "congratulations you won on insane." That circle thing should be the general auto-save feature, it sounds like it could work pretty good.

Nuky · Post by **Nuky** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:34 am

bob wrote:Also, if you are idling around one spot, the radius of the circle will slowly decrease, but until you reach the edge of the circle again no quicksave will occur.

Hmm, I didn't think of that...
I was kinda like thinking that the circle to follow you to keep you in the middle. Follow you like if it were your own ghost. Like 5 minutes behind. Thus picking up a knife and adding it to the stuff you get when you respawn after five minutes you picked it up youself.
But this might work aswell..

Glad you like my idea.

Homocidal Ham · Post by **Homocidal Ham** » Sat May 06, 2006 1:15 pm

I think that the major way of getting weapons in the game should be creating them your self
you could even have options that would make them better (you would have choises of wood and you could also tip the ends with metal to keep it from breaking so often)

there should also be a system of building things at will

like you could get a hatchet and make a log cabin or a barrier

you should also be able to dig wells for your villages water supply

these are just some of the many ideas thought of

Crill3 · Post by **Crill3** » Sat May 06, 2006 1:31 pm

Yeah, it would be nice if you could build things yourself, like in Garry's Mod
(not having to be as advanced as GMod, where you can build.. well, anything)
and make your own madman weapons, and let the engine work out how
you would best strike upon your enemies with that weapon (maybe with a hint or two from the user). Now that I really think about it, it wouldn't
just be nice, it would rock!

ehe...
I just realised that i'm demanding too much

I'll add that it's not neccesary, because this game/engine will be awesome
anyway.

Sectaurs · Post by **Sectaurs** » Sat May 06, 2006 4:25 pm

I think there should be voodoo priest critters living off by themselves in their little hermitages who, for a price [be it items/max health/money] are willing to bind your soul back to your body.

Near a town, you would have the local clergymen to perform the rites [providing you prescribe to their doctrine - no ressurecting heathens!].

This would allow the game to continue uninterupted - what good is a pervasive world if it gets rolled back? You just find yourself at the nearest hermit/cemetary/priest, which might be quite a bit away. Your corpse would most likely be looted by then.

This would also allow for the return of a few powerful foes you thought you had killed... they come limping out of the mist, minus the arm you took from them and turned into your personal club, but armed with an overwhelming need for revenge [and a large gang of cutthroats he's gathered]. Uh oh! Maybe you should have let him live...

Nuky · Post by **Nuky** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:38 am

Weapons will take damage too, won't they?

Zantalos · Post by **Zantalos** » Sun May 07, 2006 12:06 pm

Ya, I think there were some ideas on rusty weapons, and ways for them to break. I find that breaking my weapons is really annoying though. I get so attached to my new staff and then *clink* it disintegrates in front of me again, darn. I mean, who wouldv'e thought that a wooden staff would smash apart before a face does, I mean there should have been some freaky in game head implosions!

I also want to be able to construct some cool camps and weapons too, that sounds fun. I don't know haw hard it would be, but by the amount of games doing it, I'm guessing it is near impossible aswell (I'm going to have to download Garry's mod, see what the fuss is about. It sounds really cool.)

The clergy people revivng up Turner sounds like a mix between Dragon Quest and World of Warcraft. But it sounds fun though, ghosting back to your body and reviving yourself up again. I think it should be more fantasy realistic though, take control of some nearby village town persons and get them to drag back Turners body (dragging like in Hitman, that was always fun to play with), to some magical Max's house (copyright Princess Bride) and you get all healed up and have to do some kind of quest to repay them (I dunno, the quest thing may get a bit to complicated or repetative though).

The enemies coming back to get you is like that river level in Metal Gear Solid: Snake Eater. Man, I killed so many people, that took freaken forever to get passed, cutting throats was just too fun though.

Nuky · Post by **Nuky** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:41 am

Reviving yourself from the dead is just silly.

If you absolutely have to do the *get soul back in body*-thing, I'd prefer the good ol' "escape from the flames of hell" thing, where if you die, the game is over (cause your soul's gone), or something. But then what would saving at random occasions be good for?

Edit:

Zantalos wrote:Ya, I think there were some ideas on rusty weapons, and ways for them to break. I find that breaking my weapons is really annoying though. I get so attached to my new staff and then *clink* it disintegrates in front of me again, darn. I mean, who wouldv'e thought that a wooden staff would smash apart before a face does, I mean there should have been some freaky in game head implosions!

A skull is more durable than a wooden stick.

Zantalos · Post by **Zantalos** » Sat May 13, 2006 7:07 pm

Ha ha ha ha ha, who says! I bet if Barry Bonds (famouse strong dude that hits balls for a living, AKA a "baseball player") were to take a swing at my head, the last thing to break would be his bat! Man, bones would get messed up so badly, no way would a wooden weapon break first.

Now, baseball bats might be a bit more durable than a staff, but I'm thinking those staffs could break skulls aswell (ooh 'Mature' rating now, broken bones might make it a "eww" rating).
I do think skulls are stronger than your average looking stick, they could be (Rabbits have a well calcium filled diet, their bones don't break anyways. Especially anthropomorphic rabbits... well, only anthropomorphic rabbits.

).

But yes, reviving would probably mess up the whole auto save idea. You'd most likely want to go back 10 minutes, instead of doing all that crap to revive yourself.
I'd like to quick save though. I know it's really lame since you can do everything one step at a time, but I think i'd need it.
Like, for me I have to keep repeating hard challanges 4 to 5 times over again before I can beat them. That would really stink If I had to go back a whole 6 minutes of running each time I died (5 minutes to go back, 5 minutes to finish it, 4 times of repeating, that's like 20 minutes! I need to learn how to not suck

)

Heh heh, it should take more to completely kill someone, enemies should just leave you alone after you are: Dead, knocked out, or are in a very critical condition where you are passed out from major blood loss (blood loss should make you faint first instead of instant death, just to make it easier). Their urge to finish you off should be based on their type (raider, villager) and your actions against them (stabbing them when they're down, doing things that would give you the "brutal" title if you were doing chalanges)

Silb · Post by **Silb** » Sat May 13, 2006 10:19 pm

What about actually putting something at risk when you choose to fight?

If I recall correctly Lugaru 2 is planned to have less of a steep learning curve. Plus you should be able to work around combats.