Wolfire Games Forums

Ok, so I downloaded Wolfire version 152 off piratebay. As a PC gamer without a lot of money, I always try a game before buying. This often means pirating it, since demos are rare. And If I want to keep the game i will buy it, especially when it's indie games. But since it won't work and the answers for it (command line and phoenix window comes up, nothing happens) are in the preorder forums, I guess I'll just not buy. But there are good pirates out there! Poor people who just want a demo... I saw a thread here about someone else who said this, and he got a lot of heat.

Actually, Wolfire Games is unusually pirate friendly.

However, asking for support is a little bit too much. I'm fine with you demoing it, and since it doesn't work, you can just wait till later to buy it, though if you plan on ever getting it, preordering is the best thing you can do to help the dev's. Because they will fix all the bugs, or give you a refund if you want, both of which are clear to anyone who knows anything(well, maybe not the second one, but you could just ask about that) I feel like it is pointless to torrent it as a demo if you plan on buying it. If you were just curious as to whether or not it's fun, that's OK as long as you buy it when you realize it's awesome.

Also, I'd like an example of a community (of an indie company, not a torrenting site) that's helpful to obvious torrenters, especially when the dev's are so awesome (Open source wildfires, Over $2,000,000 to charity, cross platform madness(All of the previous from the humble bundles, which they started and then kinda branched off, but it's still Wolfire), awesome games, extremely helpful, very committed to their jobs, Super Genius Gods Of Game-Making(and other things)) It's pretty hard to find anyone this awesome, yet you would still be hard pressed to find a community like I said above.

Now, I'm done being polite. Go burn in hell, you devilspawn Nazi bastard from a communist country(that used to be treason here in America(It also kind of fits with the poor torrenter type of guy)

Incidentally, I torrent, but only for ridiculously expensive products that wouldn't get my money either way, so it's a neutral-win situation. I have a heart. And a foot. Both important for the circulation of CO2 throughout your external kidneys.

How do you feel if you are 3 years tring to make living by just developing a game and soeone just are pirateing it? I belive not so greate fealing?

Here's three reasons:


1) I've talked with Jeff, Ninjas, David on the IRC. You not paying means they didn't get that money. I disagree with piracy due to certain principles, but many more disagree with pirating Overgrowth because it isn't money "lost" by faceless companies, but with people they've talked with.


2) I have bought Overgrowth. I paid for it. Why should you get something for free when I didn't?

A pirate who has a computer capable of running games like Overgrowth, and internet access, isn't poor. He might have little money to spend on entertainment, but that's true for me too. Again, why should you get something for free when I didn't?

3) Pirates are smelly.

Fine, I can see your point. I will probably try it out later, when it's further in development, and buy it if I want to continue. Until then, I bid thee farewell

Actually, OG is great in that if you buy it, run it and can't get it to work ever just shoot them an e-mail requesting a refund, and they'll be perfectly happy to give you 100% of your money back. But I would advise forking out the $30, giving it a whirl and if it doesn't work spend a few weeks trying the new alphas and trying any fixes that are possible. It's in alpha, so it not working isn't the greatest reason to not pay for it. And often times, it's usually some small little thing you have to do to get it running.

janekroll wrote:Ok, so I downloaded Wolfire version 152 off piratebay. As a PC gamer without a lot of money, I always try a game before buying. This often means pirating it, since demos are rare. And If I want to keep the game i will buy it, especially when it's indie games. But since it won't work and the answers for it (command line and phoenix window comes up, nothing happens) are in the preorder forums, I guess I'll just not buy.

Uhm... As a counterpoint to your entire post and your entire justification. Why the hell are you 'demoing' an alpha? Get the demo when it comes you idiot.

SamW wrote:

janekroll wrote:Ok, so I downloaded Wolfire version 152 off piratebay. As a PC gamer without a lot of money, I always try a game before buying. This often means pirating it, since demos are rare. And If I want to keep the game i will buy it, especially when it's indie games. But since it won't work and the answers for it (command line and phoenix window comes up, nothing happens) are in the preorder forums, I guess I'll just not buy.

Uhm... As a counterpoint to your entire post and your entire justification. Why the hell are you 'demoing' an alpha? Get the demo when it comes you idiot.

This.

SamW wrote:Uhm... As a counterpoint to your entire post and your entire justification. Why the hell are you 'demoing' an alpha? Get the demo when it comes you idiot.

There's a fault in your logic. There's no demo now. The game can be bought (pre-ordered) now. He can't buy the game now based on information he will only get in the future.

A better counterpoint would be that you can get a full refund if it doesn't work.

Endoperez wrote:

SamW wrote:Uhm... As a counterpoint to your entire post and your entire justification. Why the hell are you 'demoing' an alpha? Get the demo when it comes you idiot.

There's a fault in your logic. There's no demo now. The game can be bought (pre-ordered) now. He can't buy the game now based on information he will only get in the future.

A better counterpoint would be that you can get a full refund if it doesn't work.

The way I think is that the developers are the ones who decide over their product. If they don't want you to try their game before you get it, then that's their right. If someone doesn't like that, then that doesn't give them the right to do something illegal.

Wolfire will release a demo to anyone who wants to try it before they buy it when they think the time is right. Until then there's a LOT of video content for OG that you can look at in order to make up your mind about preordering or not.

And like you say Endoperez, if it turns out this person's computer can't handle the game, then he can just ask for a refund and no acts of criminality will have occurred and everyone is happy.

I downloaded a pirated version before preordering, and my decision to preorder was a direct result of that. The video blogs are certainly nice, and are a wonderful PR tool, but there's definitely a difference between having a game and the changes being made to it explained to you by a third-party, and playing that game and experiencing the gameplay implications of the weekly updates for yourself.

The flipside of that is that you can run in to technical issues that you have NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT and potential answers to those issues that YOU HAVE NO ACCESS TO. Similarly, you've also just inadvertently soured your opinion of a game because of the failings of an illegitimate copy - for me the effect was the exact opposite, but that's not always going to be the case. $30 is by no means an exorbitant amount of money, and as already mentioned in this thread, Wolfire would not hesitate to refund your money if for some reason you came to regret your purchase, so in this instance it seems like actually buying the game would have been less of a hassle than trying to fiddle around with a pirated copy and coming to bitch on the forums about it.

You posted a thread on /v/ about this yesterday, didn't you?

Endoperez wrote:

SamW wrote:Uhm... As a counterpoint to your entire post and your entire justification. Why the hell are you 'demoing' an alpha? Get the demo when it comes you idiot.

There's a fault in your logic. There's no demo now. The game can be bought (pre-ordered) now. He can't buy the game now based on information he will only get in the future.

A better counterpoint would be that you can get a full refund if it doesn't work.

In my opinion, the concept of demoing an alpha product is outrageous.

A demo's purpose is to demo whether or not you like the product as a tool to make a decision. The alpha is hardly a product at all. The simple fact is, if you are discerning about what you are spending your money on, pre-purchases are out of the question. Pre-purchases have an inherent risk that should be the main concern of a penny pinching customer. The game may never actually get released! And you are concerned with whether it is good or if it runs on your system? (By the way, the alpha is in no way representative of final compatibility of the game. Requirements may go up or down. It also is in no way indicative of the gameplay.) Therefore demoing a pre-purchase as a way to decide whether or not you want a game is absurd. And pirating a pre-purchases as a 'demo' is the silliest excuse I have ever seen.

the pirate hate is because of the wolfire love, I've talked to every team member personally and they're all great people trying to make a living, so when someone pirates the game I react about the same way I would if someone were to try to steal from a friend.

Basically you are all saying kill the fan base, if they want to be fans pay first! so why punish the masses. Betas are usually free these days anyway for a limited time, for testing purposes and to build awareness. so an idea would be to give extras to those that pay/preorder like multiplayer, mod distribution, extra characters, weapons, no ingame advertising and tech support but not punish the world if someone wants to download free they have to download the whole new build or get them to submit art assets, character models to help with the game constuction or the free version gets updated every three months.

The industry is changing the other way is to invest in an isp so u get paid off people downloading data indiscriminately if things are pirated or not,the movie industry hasn't learned had there rists slit by the blades of pirates and are bleeding out.

who would we be if we didn't try to make the world better, so remember the wise words of the user adwuga
"DON"T BE A BITCH" its his motto.

First - http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html

That's a really, really good read. About piracy.

rhazielz wrote:Basically you are all saying kill the fan base, if they want to be fans pay first! so why punish the masses. Betas are usually free these days anyway for a limited time, for testing purposes and to build awareness. so an idea would be to give extras to those that pay/preorder like multiplayer, mod distribution, extra characters, weapons, no ingame advertising and tech support but not punish the world if someone wants to download free they have to download the whole new build or get them to submit art assets, character models to help with the game constuction or the free version gets updated every three months.

By "fan base", do you mean the people who like the game so much they're not going to pay any money for it?
By "masses being punished", do you mean the people who didn't pay anything being prevented from getting access to the infrastructure and tech support that costs the company time and money?
By "betas", do you mean demos? I guess you do, since Overgrowth is still in Alpha, not Beta phase.
I won't even touch that "give extras to those who pay" thing.
By "punish the world" do you mean the time I wrote "pirates are smelly"?
By "they have to download the whole new build" you mean that only people like you who have enough money to have a good internet access should have the right to pirate?
By "getting pirates to submit art assets" do you mean "Wolfire should start using content most likely illegally acquired from other games, possibly containing viruses"?

Looking at these comments, you seem a bit uninformed of the reality of game development and, well, real life. Also self-centered and a bit of a prick, with a whole lot of "I-want-it-I-should-have-it" attitude. Your language and demands are childish, which suggest you're either 11 or drunk.

However...

or the free version gets updated every three months.

You have NO idea what you're talking about! That's like saying that when your phone gets stolen, the phone company will be nice and lets you stop paying the bills of the thief (who keeps using the phone) after only three months! Except, in your case, you want the developers to continue doing that for several updates... 6 to 9 months, minimum. Do you even realize that you're demanging that five or more people WORK FOR FREE, and then release the fruits of their labour for free for you...


I hope you a troll. In that case, you're a good troll. If you're serious, you're an ill-informed pirate with poor grasp of English language who doesn't realize what work means, how much work goes into a game, or how much skill goes into just learning how to make a game.

The industry is changing the other way is to invest in an isp so u get paid off people downloading data indiscriminately if things are pirated or not,the movie industry hasn't learned had there rists slit by the blades of pirates and are bleeding out.

The gaming industry is changing. More games are being made for platforms where piracy isn't a rule (web games, facebook games, smartphone games, console games, downloadable console marketplace games, hand consoles). Companies who used to focus on purely PC gaming are moving on towards consoles (see Crytek (company), Crysis (once a PC-only game) and CryEngine 3 (new version of their engine aimed towards consoles).

So next time you see PC games clearly converted from consoles, and PC releases only months after the console release, that's one of the reasons for piracy hate. Not pirate hate, but piracy hate. I can stand some pirates. I don't like the phenomenon.