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anomalouzs wrote:Combat with auto attack enabled is not combat, it is position changing and watching your character (not) do stuff while holding LEFT CLICK.

In Overgrowth, changing your position changes the attack. So Overgrowth's combat is, in fact, position changing and watching your character try to do stuff. These actions aren't successful unless your choices were good.

Tekken combat, for example, is pressing buttons and watching your character do stuff. These actions are always done, but unless your choices were good, the actions amount to nothing.


Now, you're basically saying that fighting in Overgrowth takes no skill at all.
If that was so, how come this guy can beat 25 bots, while this guy loses to two...

One answer is, weapons are overpowered, and so is the rabbit kick. They're likely to be changed, so that there are counters against them. However, another answer is that the first player was only very rarely in a situation where more than one enemy could attack him. Both videos are filmed over open area with no cover, so it's all down to player skill, not the environment.

And if this is possible in the open, imagine how much buildings and other features will affect the game! They'll be both defensive, because they affect enemy positioning, and offensive, because kicking enemies into it deals more damage, and let you stealth around (since you can hide behind them or climb up them).

In Overgrowth, changing your position changes the attack. So Overgrowth's combat is, in fact, position changing and watching your character try to do stuff. These actions aren't successful unless your choices were good.

Watching your character is observing combat not playing. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE AN ACTION GAME, IF I WANTED TO WATCH SOMEONE FIGHT I WOULD HAVE PUT ON SOME BRUCE LEE OR SOME SHIT........Why should I only have positional control. What is wrong with being able to attack freely as well.

This is a AUTO-Brawler, no one plays this game. The game plays the game by not allowing the player to determine anything about attacks (Punch or kick) other from what position they are made from.....usually ends up kiting the player and disabling the entire moveset.

Now, you're basically saying that fighting in Overgrowth takes no skill at all.
If that was so, how come this guy can beat 25 bots, while this guy loses to two...

Ask the game, it makes all the combat decisions apparently.

anomalouzs wrote:Why should I only have positional control. What is wrong with being able to attack freely as well.

Ask the game, it makes all the combat decisions apparently.

There's nothing wrong with freely attacking, but it isn't in Overgrowth. It would not have any use when enemies aren't near, so it doesn't do anything normally. When enemies are close, the game lets you attack them, almost all of the time. The range where free attacks would be useful is very short, and accidentally attacking empty air costs you time, and might cause your death. I think it could be modded in if someone was really interested in doing it, but I'm not sure.


The game decides that attacks performed based on several rules you can control. The rules are:

1) how near the enemy you're attacking is, and which direction is he in? Attacks close to the enemy are faster and weaker, like punches instead of kicks.
2) are you crouched? if yes, do a low attack (sweep kick)
3) are you pressing a WASD key? if yes, do a slower, more powerful attack (roundhouse kick)
4) if you're standing and not pressing WASD key, do a fast attack (straight kick)

Other than positioning, these or something similar to these is found in many fighting games. So if you can accept with positioning, I don't see why you can't accept the rest of the controls.

The game does have some issues, like how the game chooses which enemy you want to attack if there are several enemies in range at the same time. I don't think the player can change that, except by moving so that only the one enemy he wants to attack is in range.
Also there aren't very many attack variations, but that's due to this still being an alpha.

Sorry for double post, the mod confirmation thing confused me.

It would be nice, if developer enabled player to choose whether or not he wants to use features like locking onto targets and determining attacks based on distance from target... I guess it would make everyone happy that way and I personally would like to actively choose what move I will use next rather than let computer choose a move based on my distance from target.

This

Any move should be performed where I want it

and this

Also separate Block, Grapple, Punch and Kick keys to be independent of each other

can onley work properly if you have for each attack atleast 1 unique combination of keys (or onley 1 key)

Also you can't actually block everywhere. it is just 1 flinch animation. There are alsmost as many flinches as there are different blocking animations and different attacs. This also goes for fighting with weapons.
You can do those in combat also just hold right mouse buton and press left mous button

Now here is a list of all blocks available and you can't do them out of a fight
medium right block, medium left block, high right block, high left block, low right block, low left block.
Now this theory

Any move should be performed where I want it

just can't work.
Let's say i am out of a fight and i want to make all those blocks in that order that i just posted here.
OK i can press some key combos (for high right block i make a combo with D W and right mouse button, for medium right block i make a combo with onley 2 keys D and right mouse button) but this same combo just don't work with so fast combat. + this also disables my moveing keyes while fighting.

Now let's say that i want to make low punch (right hand), high punch (left hand), a sweep kick (starting from left), and low kick (right foot) and medium kick (left foot) combo.

For low punch (right hand) (lower ribs or somewhere into stomach) i make combo from those keyes S D and what ever the punch key will be

for high punch (left hand) (left side of head or yaw) i make combo AW and whatever that punch key will be

when i am makeing sweep kick (starting from left) i make a combo with shift A and whatever the kick button will be

for low kick (right foot) (kick into legs) i press S D and whatever the kick button will be

And finnaly

for medium kick (left foot) (lower ribs or somewhere into stomach) i make a combo with A and whatever the kick button will be

But now What if i want to kick with my left leg enemy's rigt leg (he is faceing me and let's say he is not moveing right now) How do i make my key combos now? Do i have to add another key? Or does the computer makes that desision for me so that i can't deside what side of enemy with what hand or foot do i attack.

Think about those things little

Dr.Snowie wrote:It would be nice, if developer enabled player to choose whether or not he wants to use features like locking onto targets and determining attacks based on distance from target... I guess it would make everyone happy that way and I personally would like to actively choose what move I will use next rather than let computer choose a move based on my distance from target.

This game can be modded. Those things can already be modded.

Also, would you ask Call of Duty developers to implement Fallout 3-style time-stop-and-aiming funtionality? It would take them too long to implement it, and it wouldn't make the existing gameplay feel any better. Just because you can shoot in both games, the same solutions don't work.

Same is true in fighting games. Overgrowth aims to do fighting differently, so it does some things differently.

last wrote:Now here is a list of all blocks available and you can't do them out of a fight
medium right block, medium left block, high right block, high left block, low right block, low left block.

He asked for more complexity, not a ridiculous amount of complexity. At most, he only said block and grapple should be separate, not that every possible animation needs its own button.
I don't know if he meant the controls would be like in Tekken, for example, but I'll use it as an example. In Tekken games, a normal block and low block are enough. High block parries high and medium attacks, crouch block evades high attacks and blocks low attacks.

he wanted to do all attacks and blocks himself and i made just a example how ridiculous amount of complexity it is.

Well said.

There's nothing wrong with freely attacking, but it isn't in Overgrowth. It would not have any use when enemies aren't near,

I can already freely block out of combat range, why disable attacks but not blocking. It limits my ability to attack, because that is all the ends up happening. Not being able to swing or attack freely means I am not playing the game unless the computer LETS me play by being within range of something.

If you advertise this as an action game, but only allow the player to attack when the game lets me play then the game is playing the player not the player playing the game.

This current system makes the player into and observer, not a player.

If holding LEFT CLICK REALLY MAKES YOU FEEL LIKE YOU DID SOMETHING KNOW YOU ARE WRONG & AUTO ATTACK DETERMINED WHETHER TO ATTACK OR NOT, YOU JUST LET THE COMPUTER AUTO ATTACK FOR YOU BY HOLDING LEFT CLICK.

It would be nice, if developer enabled player to choose whether or not he wants to use features like locking onto targets and determining attacks based on distance from target... I guess it would make everyone happy that way and I personally would like to actively choose what move I will use next rather than let computer choose a move based on my distance from target.

Exactly.

Also you can't actually block everywhere. it is just 1 flinch animation

I can block anywhere and if there isn't and incoming attack the character will still guard. That is blocking.

just can't work.

Yes it can.

High/Low Punch and Kick would be determined by stance not directional; controls.


I wouldn't want a combo to be like left right jab jab jump or something like in Tekken where it is only 2d. I need it to make real sense in a 3d enviroment. Such as:

MB1 = Jab
MB2 = Kick
MB3 = Block
MB4 = Grapple


So as a fluid combo I could, Jab Jab, Kick, Spin kick, Sweep, Grapple, Toss, Jump to flying kick.

This would like like MB1, MB1, MB2, Hold MB2 for .2second + release, Shift + MB2, MB4, Hold MB4 for .2 seconds to perform toss, Space, While in air MB2 (While at the same time using the movement keys to reposition my attacks to come from different angles)


Otherwise the combat = HOLD LEFT CLICK, DIRECTION DIRECTION DIRECTION, AM I HOLDING LEFT CLICK HARD ENOUGH? MAYBE IF I MOVE HERE, O WELL TRY AGAIN, HOPE THE COMPUTER DOESN'T GET THE TARGETS CONFUSED AGAIN (DIRECTION KEYS CONFUSE ATTACKS MAKING THE WHOLE COMBAT SITUATION A BIG MESS)

Same is true in fighting games. Overgrowth aims to do fighting differently, so it does some things differently.

It doesn't do fighting differently, IT ONLY GIVE ME LESS CONTROL THAN I WOULD HAVE IN AN AUTO ATTACKING MMO.

I COULD JUST PLAY AN MMO INSTEAD WITH THE CURRENT COMBAT SYSTEM THEY ARE THE SAME THING. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT THE COMPUTER DECIDES WHO TO ATTACK NOT YOU, THAT IS COMBAT DONE WRONG, WRONG WRONG WRONG.

He asked for more complexity, not a ridiculous amount of complexity. At most, he only said block and grapple should be separate, not that every possible animation needs its own button.

Exactly.

he wanted to do all attacks and blocks himself and i made just a example how ridiculous amount of complexity it is.

Your example is ridiculous, not the complexity.

Now before I add more fuel to the fire here, I get what you're saying, you'd like the control of when you activate an attack but that sort of automation is kind of standardized in the industry already. In say Metal Gear online or Call of Duty when you try to CQC grab or stab someone in each respective game, you're gravitated toward the opposing player when you perform a melee attack. That's not really that much of an issue and it makes the game more accessible than actually trying to make someone manually perform the input to grapple someone in MGO or to have your character in Call of duty manually lower his gun to draw his knife and stab. That doesn't hurt either game it just makes it easier for players to play without having to learn complex inputs.

Besides automation even occurs on a small scale in your own body. You don't consciously blink or breathe every time it's required your body does it for you. You don't manually gag or stop yourself from walking off a ledge, your body reflexively does that for you. A skilled fighter doesn't punch at the air or calculate every single punch, he reflexively uses the move he needs to do from muscle memory, and when you play Overgrowth that seems to be the sort of person Turner and most of the inhabitants of his world have been established to be.

There is still some control about how you attack based on movement, stance and reaction times, those aren't all being eliminated from your control and as a few young fellows have kindly pointed out, nobody is stopping you from modding the features you want in your game. The only real limits imposed are your reflexes, and your ability to gauge your range and if you think it'll help to add that new ability, or it's so infuriating that you'll demand a refund then by all means do so but please try to be civil if you can't do either. I'm a little tired of reading paragraphs written in all caps as if it were somehow louder or smarter than the person before if you do so, and it's not making your argument any more valid than before by doing so.

A skilled fighter doesn't punch at the air or calculate every single punch, he reflexively uses the move he needs to do from muscle memory, and when you play Overgrowth that seems to be the sort of person Turner and most of the inhabitants of his world have been established to be.

A skilled fighter ALWAYS calculates every punch, WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK THE AUTOMATIC FUNCTION IS DOING, CALCULATING EVERY PUNCH. IF YOU CANNOT DO THAT YOU ARE NOT SKILLED.

You are literally LIEING TO TRY TO PROVE A POINT.

The only real limits imposed are your reflexes, and your ability to gauge your range and if you think it'll help to add that new ability,

The real limit is the fact that I CANNOT ATTACK UNLESS THE GAME ALLOWS FOR IT .

IT CALCULATES EVERY PUNCH TO DETERMINE IF I CAN.


IT IS PLAYING THE GAME FOR YOU.


YOU MAKE NO DECISIONS. POSITION IS A TACTIC NOT COMBAT. YOU ARE NOT FIGHTING, YOU ARE ENABLING AUTO ATTACK FUNCTION BY HOLDING LEFT CLICK & WATCHING.

I'm a little tired of reading paragraphs written in all caps as if it were somehow louder or smarter than the person before if you

Good.

Oy...stop it, no need to curse or talk down to anyone because you're upset. If it's that big of an issue refund the game but it's a little rude to say someone's lying and start flying off in a rage just because they don't agree with your opinion

Skillkill107 wrote:Oy...stop it, no need to curse or talk down to anyone because you're upset. If it's that big of an issue refund the game but it's a little rude to say someone's lying and start flying off in a rage just because they don't agree with your opinion

Want to have a good discussion? Make some good points. Otherwise don't be wrong. Or a Liar.

Then I'm out, not sure what you're trying to accomplish other than an ego trip if that's it. Ciao.