Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

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halzoid
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

Post by halzoid » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:12 pm

I recently asked for this in my overgrowth updateables request and I was told that it would defeat the purpose of the combat.
I however don't think it would affect it, I belive it would give it an edge to the combat system.
It is possible to catch a arrow or dodge one if timed correctly so its not completely unfair, you would also have low ammo and no reticule to see where you were aiming so it would keep the gameplay fair against the enemies.
Finally turner is the hunter not the hunted, he should act like one

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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

Post by AmorphousGamer » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:02 pm

halzoid wrote:Finally turner is the hunter not the hunted, he should act like one
Turner hunts by stalking his prey and slipping a knife in its back. Or its throat.
Or he confronts his enemy and beats them fairly, in a swordfight.
Something Turner has never been known to do is cowardly hide from a huge distance and assault his enemy with arrows.

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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

Post by Endoperez » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:54 pm

halzoid wrote:I recently asked for this in my overgrowth updateables request and I was told that it would defeat the purpose of the combat.
I however don't think it would affect it, I belive it would give it an edge to the combat system.
It is possible to catch a arrow or dodge one if timed correctly so its not completely unfair, you would also have low ammo and no reticule to see where you were aiming so it would keep the gameplay fair against the enemies.
Finally turner is the hunter not the hunted, he should act like one
What makes Overgrowth different from most FPS games? It's all melee, and there's a depth to the melee. You can block, counter and so on. When you attack, you have to be ready for the counterattack. You have the enemy in front of you, and you often feel like you're in a duel, especially when you're facing against just 1 enemy.

Would bows add to this?
No.
Is it possible to make a good bow system for a melee game? Yes. Mount & Blade bows were awesome. Mount & Blade is a large-scale game though, and death and loss is handled differently.

Limited arrows = low ammo is often bad game design. Having no reticule would make it harder to learn, but not that much harder to do - you could just mark the spot on your monitor with tape or something, depending on your monitor...
Earlier today I watched this 1-hour presentation about the weapon balancing in the Halo series. The guy was talking about design spaces in games, and mentioned how having limited ammo would create a negative feedback loop and, while loops are commonly thought to be good for game design, he disagreed and said that those sorts of loop make for bad weapons. He specifically and several times mentions how running out of ammo is bad balancing, and how sniper rifles are often made wrong. Bows would fill the sniper rifle role in OG (extreme long range weapons).

http://gdcvault.com/play/1012211/Design ... anging-the
It's rather heavy talk though, lots of tangents but probably not that interesting unless you are looking into game design process.

If you want to watch it, remember that weapons in there are basically options the player has, not necessarily weapons like they're in Overgrowth. The jump kick is the OP weapon ATM. The best way to think about Overgrowth would be through his Flow analogies, look at the slides named Flow, Cadence and Verisimilitude and the ones after that. Overgrowth at its best is a flow of close-quarter combat moves, reactions to the enemy's attacks. It's about competence, your skill shining through.

orihara
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

Post by orihara » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:04 am

Its really awesome that the game is all melee that is so fair specially when it comes pvp mount+blade were cool but it would be better if there were a pet that could help you in pk.

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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:33 pm

orihara wrote:Its really awesome that the game is all melee that is so fair specially when it comes pvp mount+blade were cool but it would be better if there were a pet that could help you in pk.
Okay...

1: Welcome to the forums!

2: That post is a tad hard to read. (If English isn't your native language I apologize).

3: PvP isn't really confirmed, plus I want coop more.

4: No mounts as confirmed by the devs.

5: Pets might fall under the mounts as a "No".

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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

Post by underthedeep » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:52 pm

But what if we could have a pet Whale Man?

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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:21 pm

underthedeep wrote:But what if we could have a pet Whale Man?
We would end with a "Whale Man is love, Whale Man is life" video and I don't want to watch that.

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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

Post by Dammasta » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:41 am

It would be kind of weird for an animal to ride another animal into battle wouldn't it? Unless they rode humans…

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Anton
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

Post by Anton » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:00 am

Dammasta wrote:It would be kind of weird for an animal to ride another animal into battle wouldn't it? Unless they rode humans…
I don't know... I can kinda imagine it...
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Endoperez
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

Post by Endoperez » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:24 am

Dammasta wrote:It would be kind of weird for an animal to ride another animal into battle wouldn't it? Unless they rode humans…
"Don't be silly, human! Houyhnhnm are too big to ride on your back. We must craft ourselves a chariot, poste-haste!"

Image

That's from Gulliver's travels, plural. He didn't meet just the lilliputians...


Any way, no thread about animals riding animals is complete without...

Image

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Dammasta
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

Post by Dammasta » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:16 am

I stand corrected.

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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

Post by BobSnyder » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:10 pm

I agree that this sounds like a good idea. With what you suggested, I don't think it would be overpowered like everybody says it is. With limited arrows that you retrieve from the bodies of the enemies you kill, and a proper aiming system, it would be pretty hard. The only problem is, This aiming with the right mouse button is the same as most first person shooters. since overgrowth is a third person game, it would be hard to transfer from third person to first person for aiming. But it could work if instead of a first person aim you used a dot on the screen or something like third person shooters do.

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Phoenixwarrior141
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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

Post by Phoenixwarrior141 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:16 pm

Go Mount & Blade style, a key for First Person.

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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

Post by Sehiro » Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:15 am

Sorry to be the party killer, but may I say that bow and arrow doesn't look exactly like a priority?
For sure less than dismemberment, for example?
I mean i don't get the point to continuously discuss the subject (literally years), if it would anyway possibly (and I repeat possibly, maybe the devs don't even like this) be implemented AFTER the full release.
Even if it was as awesome and polished as it can get, I doubt the devs would work on this rather than on online multyplayer, and that will probably get looked into after the official release.

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Re: Big Idea, but hard to make - Bow and Arrows

Post by Merqos » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:40 pm

(This post was meant to be posted awhile ago)
... But here it is!*

I like how some people criticized the idea of Bow and arrow. That it would never be in the vanilla game. People would say it would ruin the melee combat system, etc.
- And i agree. It could spoil the whole combat system and the game.
- But hey! It could also be fun!
- Right?

When i saw the Alpha 201, i laughed. In this video David demonstrates some of the new features he added since the last alpha. The reason i laughed was from one of the features he added.
Spear throw. Just think of it one second. It`s all you need. Still don`t get it? Then i shall explain too you, my dear.
In the video, where David shows the changes in OG, you can now throw a spear a long distance and kill an enemy. Just with one *click*.
Then i began to think on the melee combat. Where did it go? I thought the game was based on it, like you guys said. Then i thought. This is just like a bow and arrow. They do share the same purposes. Don`t they?
Just make the rabbit hold a bow and change the layout of the spear to an arrow. Then add on a animation so it looks like he is shooting an arrow from his bow.

And there you have Bow and arrow in Overgrowth (kind of).

*Sorry for one year delay.

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