Class based multiplayer mod concept/standard MP concept

[Kompatriot]

Hi folks, I'm new here, although like quite a few people, I've been following OG for quite a while now. I bought it because the bundle promo was simply too good to pass up. However, I admit that, were it not for the promo, I would have waited until OG's multiplayer was more fleshed out before I made my final decision as to whether or not to buy it. That is because I fit in the multiplayer community; the games I want to buy are ones with a strong multiplayer component. Traditionally, I've played strategy games, but team based multiplayer games have lately appealed to me (DOTA and TF2 being good examples).

Now, I've always been interested in crossing over into the modding community, since I've had a few ideas of my own I'd love to see implemented. Certainly, if OG's multiplayer is still kept very simple, I'll try to mod my ideas in myself, assuming that's possible. In a perfect world, Wolfire will implement similar ideas to mine, but I'm not expecting necessarily that they will.

The title of this thread talks about class based multiplayer. For those who don't know what that is, basically there are several predefined classes, and prior to spawning, you select which one you'd like to play. Each class has certain strengths, and certain weaknesses, a fact which is made more interesting and feasible because we are working with 5 (possibly more I suppose) distinct races.

I'll organize the rest of this OP with a QA format, because that's the easiest:

Q: What kind of gameplay would you want?
A: The goal would be to make multiplayer gameplay which combines teamwork strategy with OG's doubtlessly awesome combat system. To encourage teamwork, players are presented with classes which have specific strengths and weaknesses. Victory is achieved strategically, that is, rather than winning if your team gets 10 kills, your team wins if it scores ten points by capturing the flag, by seizing the most territory, or slaying the enemy leader (examples). This kind of strategy creates a system which allows classes which don't specialize in direct combat to be interesting and useful.

Q: What would be the mechanics of an example gametype?
A: Each team starts with a fixed number of points. Certain events trigger a reduction in points, and bringing your opponent down to zero is victory. Scattered around the map are strategic nodes; players capture these by being near them for the required duration. Each node reduces the number of enemy points at a fixed rate, but it also negates the loss of points by the same fixed amount. The effect is that in order to win, your team needs to control more points than your opponent does. This is similar to a lot of team based multiplayer games, but with OG's combat system, it could be really intense, especially over large maps (creating the strategic dilemma of where players should be concentrated, and increasing the usefulness of classes designed to capture points rather than kill enemies).

Other events, such as the death of a friendly player, cause your team to lose points. Certain modifiers might be included to spice things up (e.g. a streak of kills might cause a multiplier effect).

Q: Interesting, so what would the classes be?
A: Currently, to add diversity, I think it would be more interesting if there were asymmetric sides. In other words, the opposing teams have different classes. Those sides will hereafter be referred to as A and B because I'm too lazy to make cool sounding names. My reasoning would be that because OG is constrained by its medieval-ish setting, asymmetry would be a way to make things a little more dynamic. Of course, hopefully by design there would be lots of gametype options (e.g. to allow all classes for both sides ala DOTA). The division would be mainly racial; A is constituted by a wolf class, a rat class, and a cat class, while B consists of a dog class, a rabbit class, and a (different) cat class, cats being on both sides because they appear to be most morally ambiguous.

I'll start with a world in which there are only two classes (one for each side), and work up from there. As a quick side note, players should have a limited selection of gear prior to spawning. For instance, I might choose a Dog with a spear and sidearm; however, I could choose a dog with a superior glaive, but then I give up the sidearm (a little contrived, but just an example).

The first class would be the Wolf. They are A's attack class; the wolf is intended for killing enemies, first an foremost. Mobile, tough, and powerful, they are also an effective class for capturing nodes due to their speed. Indeed, a wolf can take out any other class in a one on one confrontation, assuming the other guy decides to engage toe-to-toe.

The Dog guard for B is quite different in his role, although s/he is still intended for direct fighting. Equipped with a polearm and thick armor, the dog is not very fast. Because of their armament, dogs are far better at supporting one another than wolves are. A group of them will actually defeat a group of wolves; however, wolves which successfully divide up the dogs will win. This creates a very interesting strategic dynamic; the dogs can effectively hold any point they want to against the wolves, and can even take any point they wish, but the wolves have an easier time holding a greater number of nodes. This kind of dynamism leads to interesting games.

The next classes would not be focused on direct combat; the scavenging Rat and the Rabbit scout. Rabbits are quick, but nowhere near as strong as dogs or wolves. Hence, due to their remarkable agility, they are far better at seizing territory. Equipped with an efficient ranged weapon (throwing knives, a sling etc) as well as a close quarters weapon, they double as skirmishers, and are able to draw wolves away or soften them by kiting (also referred to as hit and run).

Rats are sort of a response to rabbits; they too are physically weak, but are still quite fast. Not as agile as rabbits, they make up for it with stealthier gear and poisoned weapons. They sort of fill the defensive deficiency of the A; moving through A's territory is a dangerous prospect, as they can use paralyzing darts or ambush from a tree with a poisoned dagger. They hamper the enemies movement, but more importantly, they make ninja node caps more dangerous, as a rat might by lying in wait for an unsuspecting rabbit scout. This results in a game of stealth detection; not being detected, and successfully detecting, which is very rich gameplay wise.

Anyways, this OP is waaaay too long, but those were my thoughts. I hope they warranted a thread of their own. Criticism, and ideas for additional classes (for the cats, in particular) would be interesting indeed.

[ShinobiRAGE]

I can not say much since I have not read everything about the animals strength and weakness.
Though I thought the rat was like a spy with the back stab making it kinda weak, like in TF2. Thought the rabbit was the balanced one out of all the animals. Correct me if I am wrong since its like I am half awake also.

[Count Roland]

well logically this would put cats in more of a leader position, strong and fast as well as relatively well armored with cruel weapons and claws, but having a very very limited number of them as they don't like company. (say one per team) I don't think we'll be having any long ranged weapons but most of this sounds good overall. I like your ideas but I think this kind of gameplay isn't very likely for OG due to the skill and disarmament/reversal factor, as well as ping. but I like the idea of a wide ranging map on which the rat's tactics could be useful.

[Lord_of_Sausage]

And still, if OG don't get this, a mod will

[m3nace]

I love strategic teambased games, they're the best imo
you really get the feeling that you're in a real war and it gets even better when everyone has headphones

[Count Roland]

you mean like a headset mic? cause I mean really just having headphones wouldn't change much. xD

[Kompatriot]

I can not say much since I have not read everything about the animals strength and weakness.
Though I thought the rat was like a spy with the back stab making it kinda weak, like in TF2. Thought the rabbit was the balanced one out of all the animals. Correct me if I am wrong since its like I am half awake also.

Balance remains to be seen, of course. What would you change about the Rat as I've described which you think would fix the potential issue?

well logically this would put cats in more of a leader position, strong and fast as well as relatively well armored with cruel weapons and claws, but having a very very limited number of them as they don't like company. (say one per team) I don't think we'll be having any long ranged weapons but most of this sounds good overall. I like your ideas but I think this kind of gameplay isn't very likely for OG due to the skill and disarmament/reversal factor, as well as ping. but I like the idea of a wide ranging map on which the rat's tactics could be useful.

Lag could definitely be a big issue, seeing as OG uses fighting game mechanics. I'm not sure if it would make it entirely unplayable, though.

You make some good points about the Cat, although the question is how its role is distinct from other described classes. Maybe Team B should have a "cat priestess" or something, a kind of healer who is also decently equipped. I'm not sure what Team A would have.

[Lord_of_Sausage]

More like a cat medic, since i don't think there will be magic in OG

She could still bless people, though. That would give some more fighting spirit i suppose

[Kompatriot]

I actually wasn't referring to magic; healing and religion are often intertwined in ancient culture. The healing process would not be magical.

That's an understandable ambiguity, though.

[sneaky_squirrel]

I am not going to comment on the concept because I am neutral on this subject.

But I have to disagree with a group of dogs beating a pack of wolves, because even though wolves are savage, they really care for their kin in real life (This kind of real life behaviour would really look good in the game, and the theory you propose wouldn't really make much sense).

[m3nace]

you mean like a headset mic? cause I mean really just having headphones wouldn't change much. xD

oh shoot
yeah

[Kompatriot]

I am not going to comment on the concept because I am neutral on this subject.

But I have to disagree with a group of dogs beating a pack of wolves, because even though wolves are savage, they really care for their kin in real life (This kind of real life behaviour would really look good in the game, and the theory you propose wouldn't really make much sense).

The design decision isn't informed on the real world behavior of the animal in question; it should be understood that OG wolves are not real wolves, and indeed, are even described as being significantly different (e.g. primitive and brutal, whereas primitive is not a logical description of most wildlife anyways and cunning is far more apt than brutal in respect to actual wolves). You do not supply a reason as to why behavior modeled after the "real thing" would be better anyways.

Philosophically, the goal of a team based multiplayer OG mod would be first and foremost the creation of excellent, deep gameplay, not the pursuit of realism (as it applies to OG). That being said, the other part of the goal is to adhere as closely as possible to the source material, compromising it only when necessary and then as little as possible.

The relationship between the Dog and Wolf as I envision it, however, obeys the source material relatively faithfully. Part of the disagreement may arise from the fact that I was not absolutely clear about how my design would work.

Recall that Wolves are described as nomadic and savage, relying on their natural strength rather than inventiveness to survive. Hence, wolves are unlikely to use much in the way of arms or armor. Dogs, on the other hand being physically inferior to wolves in most or all respects, have been described as overcoming this weakness by making use of technology.

It's to be imagined that the Dog is equipped with a weapon along the lines of a polearm, along with armor. Both of these tools in tandem make the Dog an effective, albeit unwieldy warrior. Given adequate space and the right terrain, a lone wolf can easily overcome a lone dog, or perhaps even several. However, the multiplicative effect of mutually supporting Dogs, as they are equipped with deadly reach weapons, will make it drastically more difficult for a pack of wolves to overcome a pack of dogs. That's more or less how I envision that particular dynamic.

[sneaky_squirrel]

Such as the famous phalanx formation? In which multiple men equipped properly could decimate enemies, makes sense ;p.

Not a bad concept at all.

[Count Roland]

:

[Endoperez]

I am not going to comment on the concept because I am neutral on this subject.

But I have to disagree with a group of dogs beating a pack of wolves,

I think the point was that savage wolves would work together against dogs, not that wolves wouldn't want to attack dogs.

Any way, here's some facts about dogs killed by wolves in Finland.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/3784509