But a Ninja can do backflips off of walls and cut through wood blocks like paper with their katanas. Forget cartwheels, a katana would destroy some bastard sword wielding fool. By the time they'd lift up their bulky sword over their heads, the ninja would have ran past the guy with his katana, slice, and then strike a pose while the other guy keels over on his face. It happens all the time.
Plus katanas are really cool.
Phoenix Engine 9-30-05 More Weapons
*bows*
I'm certainly not going to fight against the idea of being able to pull off some sweet ninja-like moves.
I just like my world to be internally consistant so steel cutting steel isn't going to happen without causing a few question marks.
And yes, Katanas are cool. I just think that a longsword (being used by an expert) is equally cool and we haven't seen it as much.
Certainly not arguing against the katana btw - just saying I'm looking forward to a range of weaponry and i'd like to see the full range be useful (instead of what seems to happen in most games where half of them are pointless and there are really only one or two weapons that are "the best").
Also, bonus points if losing our weapons isn't such a big deal and improvisation is possible
PS: The weapons are not the part that wins. Skill over equipment almost any day (unless we are taking a serious reach advantage - that can negate alot of skill which is why spears are so popular). And guns of course. Thats a very large reach advantage
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I'm certainly not going to fight against the idea of being able to pull off some sweet ninja-like moves.
I just like my world to be internally consistant so steel cutting steel isn't going to happen without causing a few question marks.
And yes, Katanas are cool. I just think that a longsword (being used by an expert) is equally cool and we haven't seen it as much.
Certainly not arguing against the katana btw - just saying I'm looking forward to a range of weaponry and i'd like to see the full range be useful (instead of what seems to happen in most games where half of them are pointless and there are really only one or two weapons that are "the best").
Also, bonus points if losing our weapons isn't such a big deal and improvisation is possible
PS: The weapons are not the part that wins. Skill over equipment almost any day (unless we are taking a serious reach advantage - that can negate alot of skill which is why spears are so popular). And guns of course. Thats a very large reach advantage
.
Only stereotypical ninjas are like that. Real ninja's (if there are any left) are just assasins with swords who know ninjistu.Zantalos wrote:But a Ninja can do backflips off of walls and cut through wood blocks like paper with their katanas. Forget cartwheels, a katana would destroy some bastard sword wielding fool. By the time they'd lift up their bulky sword over their heads, the ninja would have ran past the guy with his katana, slice, and then strike a pose while the other guy keels over on his face. It happens all the time.
But stereotypical ninjas are way better.
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BunnyWithStick
- Gramps, Jr.
- Posts: 4297
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Still, real ninjas would be almost as skilled in their art. I'm not sure about cutting through wood blocks like paper, I don't think any sword could do that, and would probably become a rather blunt sword if one tried to do so, but parkour like flips and walljumps would definitely be in one's arsenal.
Search youtube for martial arts, ninjitsu, etc and you'll see just what humans are capable of.
Search youtube for martial arts, ninjitsu, etc and you'll see just what humans are capable of.
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BunnyWithStick
- Gramps, Jr.
- Posts: 4297
- Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:14 am
- Location: New Zealand
More common, actually, as AKFKBs only exist in Lugaru. And you can find a lot of videos of rather impressive martial arts on the net. Unless they're all done by the same person in disguise, this means Ninja skills (Or at least Ninja like skills) are rather common, mainly due to the fact that the earth is such a huge place with a lot of people on it.
Compared to how many people don't know a martial art, or ninjitsu for that matter, it's incredibly uncommon. Still more common than AKFKBs though.
Compared to how many people don't know a martial art, or ninjitsu for that matter, it's incredibly uncommon. Still more common than AKFKBs though.
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rudel_ic
- official Wolfire heckler
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They were solo warriors that didn't fight by the rules that feudal Japan had at those times. Warlords hired them for the dirty work, but when they were discovered and captured, the warlords denied any connection to them.
They were often used to carry out assassination missions silently to decapitate enemy troops.
There is not much historical information on actual ninja missions. The ninja themselves usually led two lives, one as a mercenary and masked, the other one as a normal person.
Sometimes, they had to get away from a highly secured location. They did that by disguise and sometimes had to keep that up for months to blend in.
Ninja probably had the worst job to do ever. Nobody was thankful for their work, everybody feared them, the wage was low, they acted against what was considered good behavior at those times - all in all, they were doomed to a life of cheating and hatred.
They were often used to carry out assassination missions silently to decapitate enemy troops.
There is not much historical information on actual ninja missions. The ninja themselves usually led two lives, one as a mercenary and masked, the other one as a normal person.
Sometimes, they had to get away from a highly secured location. They did that by disguise and sometimes had to keep that up for months to blend in.
Ninja probably had the worst job to do ever. Nobody was thankful for their work, everybody feared them, the wage was low, they acted against what was considered good behavior at those times - all in all, they were doomed to a life of cheating and hatred.
Can't all be bad. If it was they wouldn't have existed - simple as that.rudel_ic wrote:They were solo warriors that didn't fight by the rules that feudal Japan had at those times. Warlords hired them for the dirty work, but when they were discovered and captured, the warlords denied any connection to them.
They were often used to carry out assassination missions silently to decapitate enemy troops.
There is not much historical information on actual ninja missions. The ninja themselves usually led two lives, one as a mercenary and masked, the other one as a normal person.
Sometimes, they had to get away from a highly secured location. They did that by disguise and sometimes had to keep that up for months to blend in.
Ninja probably had the worst job to do ever. Nobody was thankful for their work, everybody feared them, the wage was low, they acted against what was considered good behavior at those times - all in all, they were doomed to a life of cheating and hatred.
Example would be pay. I'd wager that while the pay may not have compared to the samurai's pay in land/rice/whatever - it would have been a damn sight higher than the peasant or even mercenary pay of the day.
The feudal system in Japan was kinda weird, and tough to live under for almost everyone, especially peasants.
The Emperor, considered a living descendant of the founding gods, literally owned all of Japan. Everything.
He in turn was almost literally "owned" by the Shogun, or Supreme Warlord. A virtual captive all his life, he spent his days consumed with "protocol and etiquette" and court intrigue.
They often abdicated early and passed the mantle to an infant son, so they could become the shadow Emperor, the real power behind the throne, without the court hassles.
The Shogun ruled in his name. Rights to plots of land were parceled out to Daimyos or Warlords and their clans, with the land usually described by its yield in rice: e.g. 1,000 koku, or 5,000 bushels. A koku was enough to feed one man for a year.
Only samurai could own land (or have it lent to them by the Emperor), but only peasants could work or farm on it. They were allowed to keep as much as the samurai owner decided; the rest went to the samurai.
If he needed money for war, or whores, or whatever, he just took more from his peasants. If they starved, who cares? It's not like they were real people. If he felt like it, the samurai could kill them for any reason or no reason: wearing the daisho gave him this right.
[Daisho refers to the pair of swords samurai wore: daito (meaning big sword) and shoto (meaning small sword); daito + shoto = daisho.]
After Hideyoshi, a former peasant, gained power he changed the law so you couldn't change class or caste: once a peasant, always a peasant.
Merchants were considered lower than peasants; they didn't produce anything, and handled money, scorned by samurai.
Below them were eta, untouchables, the scum of the earth. They did the jobs no one would do: handled dead bodies (spiritually unclean according to Shinto doctrine), hauled trash, emptied human waste pits: all the shitty jobs.
Samurai wouldn't even bother to kill an eta, lest he soil his sword.
Ninja were usually one of the lowest class for their day job; samurai would never do it, because it was considered dishonorable to fight like a ninja: anonymously, using stealth, poison, trickery, etc.
The Emperor, considered a living descendant of the founding gods, literally owned all of Japan. Everything.
He in turn was almost literally "owned" by the Shogun, or Supreme Warlord. A virtual captive all his life, he spent his days consumed with "protocol and etiquette" and court intrigue.
They often abdicated early and passed the mantle to an infant son, so they could become the shadow Emperor, the real power behind the throne, without the court hassles.
The Shogun ruled in his name. Rights to plots of land were parceled out to Daimyos or Warlords and their clans, with the land usually described by its yield in rice: e.g. 1,000 koku, or 5,000 bushels. A koku was enough to feed one man for a year.
Only samurai could own land (or have it lent to them by the Emperor), but only peasants could work or farm on it. They were allowed to keep as much as the samurai owner decided; the rest went to the samurai.
If he needed money for war, or whores, or whatever, he just took more from his peasants. If they starved, who cares? It's not like they were real people. If he felt like it, the samurai could kill them for any reason or no reason: wearing the daisho gave him this right.
[Daisho refers to the pair of swords samurai wore: daito (meaning big sword) and shoto (meaning small sword); daito + shoto = daisho.]
After Hideyoshi, a former peasant, gained power he changed the law so you couldn't change class or caste: once a peasant, always a peasant.
Merchants were considered lower than peasants; they didn't produce anything, and handled money, scorned by samurai.
Below them were eta, untouchables, the scum of the earth. They did the jobs no one would do: handled dead bodies (spiritually unclean according to Shinto doctrine), hauled trash, emptied human waste pits: all the shitty jobs.
Samurai wouldn't even bother to kill an eta, lest he soil his sword.
Ninja were usually one of the lowest class for their day job; samurai would never do it, because it was considered dishonorable to fight like a ninja: anonymously, using stealth, poison, trickery, etc.
A Ninja could kill a Samurai easy, then put on his armor and own some land.Usagi wrote:The feudal system in Japan was kinda weird, and tough to live under for almost everyone, especially peasants.
The Emperor, considered a living descendant of the founding gods, literally owned all of Japan. Everything.
He in turn was almost literally "owned" by the Shogun, or Supreme Warlord. A virtual captive all his life, he spent his days consumed with "protocol and etiquette" and court intrigue.
They often abdicated early and passed the mantle to an infant son, so they could become the shadow Emperor, the real power behind the throne, without the court hassles.
The Shogun ruled in his name. Rights to plots of land were parceled out to Daimyos or Warlords and their clans, with the land usually described by its yield in rice: e.g. 1,000 koku, or 5,000 bushels. A koku was enough to feed one man for a year.
Only samurai could own land (or have it lent to them by the Emperor), but only peasants could work or farm on it. They were allowed to keep as much as the samurai owner decided; the rest went to the samurai.
If he needed money for war, or whores, or whatever, he just took more from his peasants. If they starved, who cares? It's not like they were real people. If he felt like it, the samurai could kill them for any reason or no reason: wearing the daisho gave him this right.
[Daisho refers to the pair of swords samurai wore: daito (meaning big sword) and shoto (meaning small sword); daito + shoto = daisho.]
After Hideyoshi, a former peasant, gained power he changed the law so you couldn't change class or caste: once a peasant, always a peasant.
Merchants were considered lower than peasants; they didn't produce anything, and handled money, scorned by samurai.
Below them were eta, untouchables, the scum of the earth. They did the jobs no one would do: handled dead bodies (spiritually unclean according to Shinto doctrine), hauled trash, emptied human waste pits: all the shitty jobs.
Samurai wouldn't even bother to kill an eta, lest he soil his sword.
Ninja were usually one of the lowest class for their day job; samurai would never do it, because it was considered dishonorable to fight like a ninja: anonymously, using stealth, poison, trickery, etc.
Samurai ruler by day.. Ninja assasin by night..
And of course no one would notice that he smells like pig shit and can't make up poems on the spot while observing the moon or understand the complex rules of court etiquette or how to hunt with falcons 'cuz he's a ninja and he blows a special powder in their eyes and gestures hypnotically and they all believe everything he says including his wife who never questions why he comes home every night smelling of fresh blood with a bag full of severed heads and he fools everybody even the dogs except his infant son who says "Da-Da all gone. Bad Da-Da!" and the ninja puts poison in his milk and the kid swells up like a puffer fish and turns green and melts and the ninja says "A demon got him 'cuz he said bad things about his Da-Da" and he doesn't even care 'cuz it wasn't his son anyway.
Exactly.
And about the whole honour thing...
Both Japan and China operate on a system of shame - do whatever you like, but if people find out you'll be shamed.
Don't think Samurai didn't do a whole host of dishonourable things - it was even expected! But if you got caught you had to own up and pay the cost for your carelessness - else lose your place in society.
By contrast we in the west operate on a system of guilt. We're supposed to own up and feel guilty about everything we do - and society drives that feeling into us.
Similar thing in theory, very different in practice.
EDIT:
Am I the only one who thinks a non-fantasy based ninja game could be great fun? I like Tenchu and all - its got a lot of great things in it but hell - I'd like to play something more genuine and sensical
.
I also want a ninja game for PC.
And about the whole honour thing...
Both Japan and China operate on a system of shame - do whatever you like, but if people find out you'll be shamed.
Don't think Samurai didn't do a whole host of dishonourable things - it was even expected! But if you got caught you had to own up and pay the cost for your carelessness - else lose your place in society.
By contrast we in the west operate on a system of guilt. We're supposed to own up and feel guilty about everything we do - and society drives that feeling into us.
Similar thing in theory, very different in practice.
EDIT:
Am I the only one who thinks a non-fantasy based ninja game could be great fun? I like Tenchu and all - its got a lot of great things in it but hell - I'd like to play something more genuine and sensical
.I also want a ninja game for PC.