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Viking Zippy
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Post by Viking Zippy » Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:50 am

Indeed, that bed does look awesome. Will the sheets and such react when you jump on it?

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Post by David » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:30 pm

Hopefully they will, though right now they have all been drawn into the bump map by Ninjas.

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Post by Zantalos » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:59 pm

Whoa neato!

Ha ha, it's funny, every time we get new updates I get to learn new things!
Thank god for wikipedia.

I still don't know exactly what normal mapping is (nor the differences between that and bump mapping and using "Appearance Preserving Simplification" instead of "A general method for recovering attribute values on simplified meshes". That's probably not a very correctly stated problem either), but I do know that it looks really cool. It lets images get influenced by shaders as if they were high poly count models. That's why the wrinkles on the bed and the grooves on the pottery are all properly shaded even though they appear somewhat blocky-ish; They still have the shading and complex 3-d appearance of a high poly-count object.

I'm not sure if normal mapping is used exactly like in this case, but here's wikipedia's image for it.
Image
As you can imagine, without such normal mapping, the pile of cloth would look alot simpler than it is now (unless it was viewed with a tremendously high-poly count!), and would probably require you to shade the texture yourself like in Lugaru 1. Talk about optimizations!

Oh, and as for the whole sheet physics! Well, at least we know that the engine can implement complex rigid body dynamix and model skinning. If nothing else, it sure has the capabilities to surpass Oblivion's beds, it looks like it can match up to (and possibly move better than) Half-Life 2's mattresses.

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Post by Sectaurs » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:20 pm

yes. it allows you to 'bake' all the detail from a hi-detail mesh onto a lowpoly one. pretty much all you have to worry about is the silhouette. Personally, I find its best use is in static objects and terrain/walls etc.

The DOOM3 engine uses normals a lot, but poorly, resulting in the harsh black shadows. As the image shows, David made sure not to suffer from the same.

And just so you know, that bed surface is modelled perfectly flat, none of that cloth detail is actually there.

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Post by Silb » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:49 pm

Wow, if Lugaru 2 features realistic bed jumping with real-time sheet wrinkles, that'd be very compelling. Can you equip the pillow as a weapon?

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Post by Zantalos » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:31 am

Ok, flat? No way, that's cazy! Now, do you mean it is flat and squared off at the tops and bottoms or is it just flat on the top? At first, it looked like some kind of mushroom, all curvey at the front and backs. I mean, is it just the normal mapping that's giving you that illusion of puffyness, or has some floppy "model skinning" (not sure I'm using the correct term), been applied to it? That looks, that is some, that would be some pretty drastic mapping to, I mean, you're saying that was a flat object to start off as? how the? Well what the heck, does it like automatically bake objects to puff out like that? I am very confused, that's really... that's really cool.
Wait a, is the shading apart of the texture or has the mapping automatically.. does that mean David has to go over optimizing every object and bumping it up manually whenever you have to apply a new 'normal' to it? (I can say 'normal' right? Sounds funny when I write it...)
Ahh well, that sounds like what you meant by allowing you to bake objects, by doing it all manually.

I wonder what the pile of cloth originally looked like. Can you believe that "jar" thing is only two inches high? I can't.

Oh oh and one more thing! By static objects, do you mean objects that aren't controlled like bendable pieces of rope, or as in objects like crates that roll around but still retain their shape, OR do you mean completely unmovable objects like boulders that are 'nailed' to the ground?
I guess mobile objects like Turner would just look funny with lowpoly count and bump mapping.

Hmm, this sounds a bit pointless after a ton of edits... Submit!

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Post by Sectaurs » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:58 am

by static objects i meant props that are inorganic, like beds and chairs and trees and rocks and ropes.

the "baking" that I mentioned is done by the artists and is produced along with the other maps; diffuse, bump, opacity, specularity, etc.

when I said flat, I meant all the wrinkles, layers of blankets and such are all in the texture/normal map. if i remember correctly... :roll: ask ninjas

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Viking Zippy
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Post by Viking Zippy » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:25 am

Silb wrote:Wow, if Lugaru 2 features realistic bed jumping with real-time sheet wrinkles, that'd be very compelling. Can you equip the pillow as a weapon?
Sounds like a good start to a multiplayer gametype to me 8-)

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Post by Jeff » Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:12 pm

Silb wrote:Wow, if Lugaru 2 features realistic bed jumping with real-time sheet wrinkles, that'd be very compelling. Can you equip the pillow as a weapon?
Coming soon... Lugaru: Sorority Edition!

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Post by Nazgul11 » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:46 pm

Hey, I noticed on the blog for first time the new Wolfire page. Looks nice, is this going to replace the current main page eventually?

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Post by Crill3 » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:30 pm

Beautiful :D
Who made it?

In the fourth line under "Download" at the Black Shades page "please" is spelled "pleaes" :]

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Post by Jeff » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:41 pm

I made it with graphics from Ninjas. I made a thread about it a while ago, but the design probably won't see the light of day after all... David is getting someone else to make a new design.

Thanks for the heads up on the "pleaes". Fixed. :)

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Post by Zantalos » Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:36 am

Holy crap, Silb and Vib Rib are featured on the blog!

Man I had no idea until today that there had been a new blog post. Aww Jeff, you didn't mention it in the forums!
Nazgul11 wrote:Hey, I noticed on the blog for first time the new Wolfire page. Looks nice, is this going to replace the current main page eventually?
Ha ha, you just noticed the new website? Dude, you missed out on opening night! (which is odd because Jeff first posted it, deleted it in like in hour, and then re-posted it again the following day or maybe the day after... I dunno, but it was cool to have a feeling of knowing that all you had to do was type /new after wolfire.com, very cool indeed)

Oh and one last thing, what's up with these blog posters? By blog posters I really mean macwiggy (eep, that sounds really mean after I reread this), but alot of these comments would be great for the forum, as they don't really have anything to do with the topic. They sort of blow down the whole proffesional blog feeling with the kind of mean flamebait directed at you guys, it just seems like the blog is where all the gaming news people get their info on Lugaru 2, it might be a little odd for them to find comments where the developers have to put up with arguements with seemingless random people. If it was possible, to perhaps move that stuff over to the forums so I wouldn't have to fill the blog by "taking the bait." But then again, maybe you just want to leave it in there, maybe 'interactivity' between the people and the developers is just what the gaming industry needs... or not, I don't know, odd comment.

Hey isn't that funny that forum users go light or get... "uneasy" about posting on the blog, but Blog people are just the same with posting on the forums? It's neat how that works.
(but MAN who is this MacWiggy? He really needs to get on these forums instead! :o certainly has alot to say that would be a whole lot easier to reply to on here. Poor users like Zaph that have to reiterate everything that was mentioned here on the forums... :( )

Hmm, again with the posts getting alot bigger than I imagined, ahh well, cheers!
(where did the word/saying cheers come from? Kind of an odd thing to say since I'm not drinking anything right now)

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Post by wormguy » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:40 am

Day 18.

Still no blog posts have been received. Food supplies are running low, and morale is slipping.

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Renegade_Turner
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Post by Renegade_Turner » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:35 am

Bitch and moan and bitch and moan and bitch and...

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