New Here, Need Help?

V|P · Post by **V|P** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:10 pm

Usagi wrote:Well, you may be right. I still don't consider it flaming, since I tried to avoid phrases like "watch your mouth," but if it offended you, I apologize.

And if everyone else feels the same as you do, then I apologize to them too. I guess we have a different attitude towards this kind of stuff.

I have an aversion to people who say, "No offense, man," or "Just joking!" Your communication should be clear enough without that.

The only reason I can think of to say it is if you yourself think you are being insulting, or if you know your meaning wasn't clear. So, why not just make it clear, and not make excuses?

Bah! More talk. Just post an image, VpipeP; then we'll have something to talk about.

Image of what? The menu? I'm not doing it unless someone actually tells me that they want it done and will use it. As far as other work, I already posted it in my last post, and I'll post more if I can find any more I've done recently. I'm doing ThinkQuest, so I have a layout I made for that I can post, which I will as soon as the competition is over beginnning of March.

BTW, I guess I could have worded my posts better, but I know that most people understood what I was trying to say and this menu you're defending so much, I mean compare it to other games. The only thing I'm trying to do is help David so maybe he can get more traffic, and if he doesn't, well so what, at least we tried.

Usagi · Post by **Usagi** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:22 pm

I'm not really defending the menu, rather I was taking exception to your post. And I'm not disparaging your work; it looks great.

You've admitted you could have worded your posts better, and I'll admit I could have responded with a lot less defensiveness. My posts were overly antagonistic, I guess. I'm sorry.

I don't want to drive you or anyone away. I'd like more graphic artists posting work here. If you've got an idea for a menu, I'd love to see it.

If not, then anything Lugaru related (or not) when you have time.

V|P · Post by **V|P** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:41 pm

Well I'm busy atm with Mid-terms just finishing up and stuff (still in high-school), and I have to finish up my site for ThinkQuest, and I'm working on building a team and looking for a corporate sponsor like Exxon for my FIRST robotics team, so I'll try to make a quick mock-up menu in my free time. You can post ideas for it if you want, and I'll try to incorporate as much as I can.

rudel_ic · Post by **rudel_ic** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:50 pm

V|P, your DeviantArt stuff is very basic. I don't know, I'm not impressed at all. I've got some experience with all tools you mentioned and I definitely can say for sure that's first-three-tutorials-done level. No hard feelings though, at least you've reached that level. A lot of people don't get there and brag about their skills anyway.

Since that looks better than the Lugaru menus, I apologize anyway for saying you probably wouldn't be able to do better.

About your menu tutorial - it's always cool to make tutorials, so you've got a big plus there. And they seem to serve their purpose, although there are other ways to make menus than jump-to-frame-scripts.

About the idea - my opinion is, please have your own ideas. You could tie the design to some campaign, for example.

The point is: Using the tools is no big deal, it's the creativity where you can shine.

I don't want to drive you away as well, feel free to impress us.

V|P · Post by **V|P** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:38 pm

rudel_ic wrote:V|P, your DeviantArt stuff is very basic. I don't know, I'm not impressed at all. I've got some experience with all tools you mentioned and I definitely can say for sure that's first-three-tutorials-done level. No hard feelings though, at least you've reached that level. A lot of people don't get there and brag about their skills anyway.

Since that looks better than the Lugaru menus, I apologize anyway for saying you probably wouldn't be able to do better.

About your menu tutorial - it's always cool to make tutorials, so you've got a big plus there. And they seem to serve their purpose, although there are other ways to make menus than jump-to-frame-scripts.

About the idea - my opinion is, please have your own ideas. You could tie the design to some campaign, for example.

The point is: Using the tools is no big deal, it's the creativity where you can shine.

I don't want to drive you away as well, feel free to impress us.

THe tutorials are made for beginners, so it had to be simple, maybe too simple for you, but I'm sure you've used these tutorials at some point and time so you understand. As far as my Devaint, I mentioned this was when I first started using Photoshop and stuff. The last one I posted last night was a scratch I made with some new Art program called ArtRage. Don't worry though I think I can make a pretty good menu, and you can comment when you see it.

BunnyWithStick · Post by **BunnyWithStick** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:05 pm

V|P wrote:…and this menu you're defending so much, I mean compare it to other games.

Geneforge 1, 2, 3 and 4: Essentially the same as all other menus except with a nice interactive mini-simulation in behind the menu. Other than that, about the same.

Avernum 1, 2, 3 and 4: The same again except without the interactive mini-sim.

Warzone 2100: Essentially the same except with more than one background.

Vega Strike: No menu (In the mac version anyway) but very nice looking background images + hotspots for space station etc navigation.

Essentially, Lugaru is pretty much on par with it's menu, (Minor special effects when you mouseover an option, average background, and the loading screen is reasonably unique.

What do you find so bad about Lugaru's menu and loading screen???

V|P · Post by **V|P** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:20 pm

BunnyWithStick wrote:
V|P wrote:…and this menu you're defending so much, I mean compare it to other games.
Geneforge 1, 2, 3 and 4: Essentially the same as all other menus except with a nice interactive mini-simulation in behind the menu. Other than that, about the same.

Avernum 1, 2, 3 and 4: The same again except without the interactive mini-sim.

Warzone 2100: Essentially the same except with more than one background.

Vega Strike: No menu (In the mac version anyway) but very nice looking background images + hotspots for space station etc navigation.

Essentially, Lugaru is pretty much on par with it's menu, (Minor special effects when you mouseover an option, average background, and the loading screen is reasonably unique.

What do you find so bad about Lugaru's menu and loading screen???

WOw I thought we were past this. It's not that big a deal, it was just an observation, and the games you're comparing it to are the most vague, I've only heard of one of them. If you like the menu then fine, you don't need to post, my post was directed at David and I was asking if he needed help, I didn't ask anyone else to critize or comment, but I don't mind if you do, but if you want to debate it, then keep your opinion to yourself or start a new thread about how you love the menu. Just trying to help jeez...

wormguy · Post by **wormguy** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:44 pm

OK.

Lugaru's menu sucks. L2's will be better.

Thread over.

BunnyWithStick · Post by **BunnyWithStick** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:44 pm

And I'm just pointing out that the menu isn't really low level at all, Warzone 2100 even used to be a commercial game!

Zantalos · Post by **Zantalos** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:56 pm

lol bws, you just compared Lugaru's menu to being on par with Avernum (shit game from 7 years ago), Geneforge (shit game from 6 years ago), Warzone 2100 (a shitty 1999 game), and Vega Strike (an unfinished shit game no one's even heard of).

No offence

*runs away from the horde of gamers that still play these games*
approximately 13 people (rounded up)

Post by **David** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:23 pm

The short answer is no, I am not planning to go back and change anything about Lugaru 1 at this point, but it would be interesting to see your idea and discuss it.

A longer answer is that I did not put a whole lot of time into the Lugaru menu. The big creepy rabbit eye was partly designed to make it obvious that it is not a nice happy bunny game for children. I designed it approximately four years ago in high school; now I have a much better understanding of the importance of user interface design and polish, and about everything really.

On a random note, I like all of Spiderweb Software's games, most notably the Avernum and Geneforge series; Jeff Vogel is one of the few developers who really focuses on the game's story and world. The interface and graphics are not particularly clear, so his games are unlikely to be very accessible to mainstream gamers, but if you enjoy Rogue-likes and freeform RPGs like Fallout, then they are worth checking out.

Colicedus · Post by **Colicedus** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:01 am

Ill agree with the master on that one.
how ever, I am a little unsure on Avernum 4s graphics and prefer its earlier games graphics.

the combat system in his games how ever Kinda Remind me of a british SAS battle in dungeons. thats cool. I think Using the same engine he should make a modern day time multi player Game based off Terrorists and Counter Terrorists.

Genforge was a heck of a step up I though with game play. Not always having to rely on brawn and talking your way out of nasty spots, of cores its hard to talk your way out of an ambush and cant say I have done that yet, and once your dead, your dead, no respawn points, soul stones, Phoenix feathers etc, thats why you must be like Jesus in Jeff Vogel's games; Jesus saves!

Crill3 · Post by **Crill3** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:38 am

wormguy wrote:OK.

Lugaru's menu sucks. L2's will be better.

Thread over.

My thoughts exactly.

BunnyWithStick · Post by **BunnyWithStick** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:55 am

Zantalos wrote:lol bws, you just compared Lugaru's menu to being on par with Avernum (shit game from 7 years ago), Geneforge (shit game from 6 years ago), Warzone 2100 (a shitty 1999 game), and Vega Strike (an unfinished shit game no one's even heard of).

And you're going on about how old these games are! What is your point?

Also, Warzone 2100 is now being worked on since it became open source in 2004 or something, I'm referring to the entire series of Avernum and Geneforge games, two of which are very new, and Geneforge 3 isn't exactly old yet. And Vega Strike is not an unfinished shitty game, it is an unfinished game that's already amazing! Imagine how good it'll be in a few years! (Nobody's even heard of it? Until about half a year ago I didn't know what the hell Half Life and Half Life 2 were! I thought they were RTS games!)

I utterly hate commercial games, you have to buy them on a freakin' CD!

Silb · Post by **Silb** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:44 am

Hey, Zantalos, some people here like Jeff Vogel's games.

Geneforge 4 just came out last December, so it's still pretty recent (and it's one of the best). The series has got one of the simplest and coolest non-linearity systems, the best progression system (though stat-based) I know of, a vast world, plus good writing, all this wrapped up in graphics that were already antiquated five years ago.