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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:46 pm
by Count Roland
only difference with pacman is that you can see all the enemies you just need to outsmart em something which i think would be distinctly difficult for many members of this forum

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:51 pm
by Raneman25
Ragdollmaster wrote:The A.I in F.E.A.R is very good. They work together against you, I.E taking two different paths to flank you and get you in a crossfire, having a few dudes fire at you and distract you so you don't hear the grenade thrown at your face till your face is a few feet away from your body.
Those are actually players idiot.BTW deadwood sucks

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:09 pm
by Grayswandir
Raneman25 wrote:
Ragdollmaster wrote:The A.I in F.E.A.R is very good. They work together against you, I.E taking two different paths to flank you and get you in a crossfire, having a few dudes fire at you and distract you so you don't hear the grenade thrown at your face till your face is a few feet away from your body.
Those are actually players idiot.BTW deadwood sucks
Uh...no...the AI in F.E.A.R. actually does what he described.

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:13 pm
by Ragdollmaster
In multiplayer some of them do that. Of course, others just get the Type 7 Particle Rifle and start blasting the crap out of everyone they see including their teammates. And i was talking about single player A.I.

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:12 pm
by David
Raneman25 wrote:Those are actually players idiot.BTW deadwood sucks
This is an aggressively stupid and useless post, and a few more like this will be enough to get you banned.

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:29 pm
by Raneman25
David wrote:
Raneman25 wrote:Those are actually players idiot.BTW deadwood sucks
This is an aggressively stupid and useless post, and a few more like this will be enough to get you banned.
WEll it is...and have you ever played the deadwood map???

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:52 pm
by zatoichi
Dude, either shut up, or hurry up and get banned.

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:42 pm
by Makrond
Raneman25 wrote: I said FAR CRY 2 not FAR CRY
Wow, your density amazes even me. How, exactly, am I meant to base an opinion on the hype of a game not even released yet?

Bethesda touted Oblivion's Radiant AI to high heavens, yet when it came out, time constraints had caused the AI to be dumbed down considerably. Bottom line is, AI is rarely as good as the manufacturers make out. I've seen Ubisoft do some pretty impressive things over the years, but nobody, I repeat nobody has ever managed to pull realistic AI out of their ass- I mean, hats.

Flanking, teamwork, and tactics do not make good AI. It makes difficult AI. Remember that the definition of AI is not Artificial Challenge, it's Artificial Intelligence. It's not about how difficult it is for the player to kill someone, it's about how they react to their situation, how they 'assess' the situation, and ultimately how they 'decide' which is the best course of action.

Take my analogy before. Something that you believe is a person has just run past you at a superhuman speed. They were moving so fast that you aren't sure who or what it was, but you know it wasn't one of your fellow soldiers. As before, you were too slow to draw a bead and start firing, but you have a sudden brainwave: you radio the soldiers ahead of where the person/thing was moving, and alert them that, hey, there's something not quite human here, and it's heading your way, coming from the southeast. This way, they are forewarned and can set up an ambush, or at least be ready.

In FarCry, none of the soldiers I left alive did this. The soldiers were as oblivious to my location - even my existence - as they would have been had I killed those other soldiers.

Conversely, if you hear a noise and think there's someone nearby, you're not going to 'know' where that person is and immediately zero in on their exact position. Soldiers several hundred meters up the road aren't going to instantly turn around and run towards me just because I manned an M60. In fact, even after I've fired the first shot, killing one of their own men, they aren't going to turn around immediately, because behind them is safe, as far as they know, so they're going to check the immediate area in front of them, in case the enemy set up an ambush in front of them.

Now, a lot of the games I've played tend to have *some* features of realistic AI, but lack others. Some have most of the features, but then an enemy will run straight into a wall and keep running at it (something that really needs to be fixed in all games is collision detection with walls)!

The point is, AI just never quite seems to work. I'm not sure exactly why this is; game developers have had a long time to ponder this problem, but ultimately, every game I've played has a flaw in the AI that can be exploited to make the game significantly easier, and a flaw that makes the AI unrealistic; often the two are one and the same. In Mount&Blade, none of the enemies time their swings properly; the archers' aim tends to be off; et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:04 am
by wormguy
I think most game developers just don't have the time to make truly realistic AI. All AI in games is faked: it's just about who can fake the AI to seem more intelligent. Why make actual intelligent AI when you can spend a quarter of the time and money and get a pretty good result?

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:51 am
by Renegade_Turner
Raneman25 wrote:
Renegade_Turner wrote:Come on, if you were going to give an example of good AI, mention the marines from Half Life. They were ruthless, and tough as nails, and flanked you, and worked in groups. They made you think about what the fuck you were doing before you did it. The AI of the marines in Half Life was far better than the AI of the mercenaries in Far Cry.
Yes,I guess *watches dumb AI run into hazards and die*.
How about the combines in Half life 2?
To be honest the Half Life marines had better AI so shut up.
Raneman25 wrote:Those are actually players idiot.BTW deadwood sucks
You ACTUALLY thought he was talking about the people he played in multiplayer as an example of AI? I worry about you...he was obviously talking about the single player campaign enemies...well I THOUGHT it was obvious, but apparently not.

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:20 am
by Glabbit
Is anyone actually paying attention to the original use of this topic?

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:01 pm
by Renegade_Turner
I don't think so. Nevermind, he's banned now.

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:14 pm
by MONKEYZ RULE
rudel_ic wrote:The AI in Pacman is just as good, actually. Except they don't have grenades.
the simpler the job for the AI is, the better they do it, if you got an FPS game online, and the AI are just like robots, you might say the AI stinks, a little arcade game, all the AI has to do is avoid bad objects, and get as close to you as possible. y'know?

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:44 pm
by Makrond
I agree... I think...

NFS: Most Wanted has decent AI. It actually reacts to things like traffic, occasionally crashing into it, mostly braking to avoid it. A lot like a human would. Come to think of it, MW has some of the least 'on-rails' AI that I've seen in a driving game. GT4 suffers from 'on-rails' AI something chronic.

If we're going to talk about AI related things we want to see in L2... well, I can't really define what I want, but I really just want the AI to be 'human,' in realistic sort of way. Things like hunting around if they hear a noise instead of immediately spotting you and zeroing in. Hesitating if they think you're strong, becoming more cocky (and more likely to make mistakes) if they perceive you as weak. Boredom, inattentiveness, guards falling asleep, shock, 'startle' reactions (like a deer in headlights), routing, banditry, fear, courage, heroism... everything that normal people go through in the same situations. And, ultimately, I want the AI to be less omniscient.

Also, while more physics related than AI, the characters should slow down and stop when approaching a wall. It really doesn't look dignified to see them essentially running full tilt at a wall without moving.

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:08 am
by Count Roland
wormguy wrote:I think most game developers just don't have the time to make truly realistic AI. All AI in games is faked: it's just about who can fake the AI to seem more intelligent. Why make actual intelligent AI when you can spend a quarter of the time and money and get a pretty good result?
because if AI were actually intelligent that would be cool lol why make AI AI lol