additions to the combat system (Lugaru)

[Zantalos]

So yeah, I'm going to say that you should definately be prepared to see some sidestepping in Lugaru 2.

We kind of skipped around this thread and missed out on alot of ideas
(my fault I didn't reply completely to Ledood's)
But I think that idea of knocking out is really cool. In games (and in real life, I think), we usually only see these things fading from bright to dark. This effect would be really cool since you it would go from dark/normal to bright. This probably isn't a whole new idea (I know Half Life 2 created a cool bloom effect that is based on your eye dilating), but this would just look so much better than a black out fade. Since this is based on your character waking up from a concussion, it would fit the blooming very accurately (again, probably doesn't happpen in real life but for a game, very fittingly) and it'd look very awesome as dynamic time passes by. In fact any effect would look great with dynamic time on the fly, blooming effects would just make it look better.

I also like the idea of Lugaru being a completely open game (maybe not completely of course). But alot of our ideas are pretty much centered on whether the game will have that kind of open realism. Ledood's ideas are very based on that kind of openness aswell.
The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion has the ability to create almost the same type of prison like scenario. You could go to jail, break out with a lockpick, get your stuff back in the evidence room, sneak off past the gaurds, and then finish off on your newly stolen horse as you ride off to the next city. With a greater sense of imaginative role-playing you could take a simple unscripted event like stealing from an old river house, into a more adventurous story of a young thief's journey through the country side.

Not only can these things leave you with fun gaming experiences, it can also increase the gameplay with the infinite amount of individualy created stories for every player. I'm not sure how easily this would be done, but I'm guessing it would be an extrememly difficult task. This is based on the fact that not many games can actually create this style, despite the amount of requests (I can name like 4, maybe).

And ya, I really like that mugging thing when you pass out. Enemies will just try to knock you unconscious and then steal all your stuff since, it's the common stereotype that muggers never actually kill you, they just leave you to die (too bad they don't get the same option eh?). And so there should be a way to track them down (perhaps a very obviouse set of footprints to follow), and take your things back from them.

I'm not sure about fear though, it was put into Lugaru but only so that you could simulate the enemies panic and need for help (not to mention opening up a window to be able to hard tackle them). It seems like a very fun thing to do on raids in the middle of the night, but it won't be in total darkness like your idea. That kind of fear sounds like the human skinner type from "Silent of the Lambs," I'm not sure how you'll get into a situation with total darkness (there's always some light from the sky), and still be able to see without night vision goggles and such. Fear still sounds like a fun thing to do like in caves and stuff that could be pitched black, torches would seem like a great addition (now I'm sure David has been making cool lighting effects already, I've seen them), but without unrealistic technology, I'm afraid you could only see as much as your enemy would (maybe a small time window when they have to dilate their eyes to the dark).

[leDoOd]

True... maybe for the dark, Turner can have heightened senses thanks to his stay at the island? He could have "trained himself" while he was there, resulting in a more supernatural bunny than he already is. That presents more supernatural powers he could acquire, which he could discover in missions or something. Probably not a good idea, but I'm just brainstorming.

[Albab]

Hmm... maybe not supernatural, but maybe various drugs could highten your senses? Or you could put them into a fire at the back of a cave, and sneak out before it starts smoking, then go back in and take things while everyone is drugged.

[Zantalos]

Hmm... maybe not supernatural, but maybe various drugs could highten your senses? Or you could put them into a fire at the back of a cave, and sneak out before it starts smoking, then go back in and take things while everyone is drugged.

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Oh man that's like... Ha ha ha ha ha!

What the hell is that? ah ha hah ahah ha ha!
You want Turner to come up with like, I dunno, maybe 10 pounds of marijuana? On top of that, you want to make a giant crack pipe (that's the cave) and just get the little rabbits high off of that drug?! Then you wanna run back inside, and just totally take advantage of them while they're all high and have the munchies (that is if they didn't over-dose first). Quick get out your candy bars, these kids are rabid hungry!.

Wow, that's the funniest idea ever, regardless of what you meant. Man, if David and his team could create some really cool drug and awesome over dose effect to go with it. Booyah, here comes the other percent population still not won over by this game (ok, maybe not. But Fallout had really excelled high in this topic, freakin nailed it).

[rudel_ic]

That makes me think of Gothic somehow. There was stuff you could smoke, affecting your sight and stats.

[Nuky]

So much stuff to reply to...

About fighting an imaginary alter ego:
Zelda comes to mind... Shadow Link, which copies you almost perfectly. The only damage you can get, though, is from maybe falling down a cliff while playing around. But fighting imaginary people doesn't really seem very efficient in training.

About health bar:
If you are either very calm, or very active, you can feel the heartbeat without touching your neck or similar. A heart-rate graph would be... Not much of a help. Maybe a little, but not much. When you're fatigued, the heart beats harder, and when you're on the run, it beats faster. But other than that, all you got to look at is external wound.
Yes, I agree, just seeing isn't enough. There should be a way of knowing what pain he is in.
(Destruction Derby comes to mind. But that's not acceptable.)

About fear:
I think not only enemies should be affected by fear, but alsy you, as the player. Or Turner himself. (Slowing down in pitch dark caves and such).

About drugs:
Drugs for improvements, healing and bad stuff doesn't sound like a bad idea. Mind that most unknown drugs, aswell as known drugs, almost allways have sideeffects - bad or good. (After-Glow, reduced brain in/output, increased brain in/output, hangover, fatigue after taking drugs which gives you "extra" energy, etc.)

other short stuff:
I think I recalled somebody mentioned aiming in 1st person. When it comes to fatigue, shakiness is a problem, isn't it?

I guess sleepiness is also a problem when it comes to ... staying awake, duh! (drugs? Poor Turner... If this continues, he's gonne become a drug-addict)
But you know, sleeping right there and then, just to recover a bit, is easier said than done. (we all know how hard it is to sleep when you're wide awake, or have been active in the last hour)

Oh, and what about Turners mentality?



... *stops rambling*

[Zantalos]

Ya, there is just way to many topics for this idea. Some one is gonna have to create a bunch of new threads or else we are going to forget all of these things and go off topic. That or create huge posts that reply to every single idea thus far (man, great job Nuky).

I still really like that training idea though, I mean what's the difference from training with those rabbits and real ones. Turner gained all his moves and techniques from practicing this way (I mean, I don't think he had to kill that much stuff, before the raiders came), oh yeah and jumping off that really high tower for acrobatic skills.
And for people (the users playing Lugaru), it should be alot easier to train than just practicing levels over and over again. You could execute all your attacks without killing the opponent. Maybe you could try doing moves on a defensive opponent or reverse moves on an over aggresive opponent (like some way to switch their attitudes like in training).
If Turner fought enough wolves to be able to copy them, people could practice alot easier and could probably pull off that knife stealth kill on 3 wolves (I can't, I keep rolling too far and dying, since it's too hard to practice that without getting a mouth full of foot).

I still don't think we got that alternate health bar thing down, it's really hard to brainstorm with that many restrictions. Maybe it should be simple like in mechwarrior, Turner could go into his diognostic state and tell players what's wrong with him, kinda like thinking aloud (actually this is alot more closer to Metal Gear Solid:Snake Eater than anything).

Drugs and Fear seem to have a defining similarity, actually maybe not too similar. But the movement system should make it alot easier to create the kind of fear and drug effect. When enemies or Turner are scared, the system could make the base of the character sway back in forth, maybe put the person in a hunched up state while he stays still or tries to move around (kinda like a couscous state, how do you spell that?). Drugs would also be alot similar, when Turner is too drugged or intoxicated (alchohol has to in the game if drugs are), his center would continuesly sway and rock back and forth. Every once in a while (or all the time) the program would cause the player to move his leg to steady himself. The legs would also be really shakey, Turner would trip if he made sharp turns at high speeds, he'll have no balance in his legs so falling after a high jump would be alot more common (reduce the jump effect so you can't fall just be jumping, only jumping off a high spot would make turner eat it when he hit the ground).

Sleeping should be something you had to "charge up" for (or charge down for). Ya, it's kinda unrealistic for Turner to just go to sleep after every little battle. Maybe just enough on the meter for Turner to sleep every night, maybe also a cat nap if he works himself out through the whole day. An invisible indicator that could be focused on how often Turner blinks and for how long to show sleepyness, this would be impossible to notice right after a fight, he'll have too much adrenaline (although you should be able to know that Turner would need to go to sleep every night/ every other night). Maybe some sleeping pills if you want to go to sleep, or put an enemy to sleep. Would a knife dipped in a sleeping drug make the rabbit go to sleep when it gets jammed inside his back, I mean, that's like straight into the blood stream.

I'm gonna bring it up again, what about rmfitzgerald50's idea of blocking? That seems like a really fun combat enhancement. It won't be like Zelda's use of a indestructible, full recoiless shield, It would be like the Xiao Xiao's series of unarmed blocking (kinda like Jackie Chan, every one likes Jackie Chan). But ya, the enemies would continue to stay extremely aggresive so you could back up to put the enemies at the disired location, or get ready for a strong reversible move.

[Eric]

I split this thread into a bunch of new threads with the recent relating posts quoted, enjoy the easier reading. If i left any quotes or topics out tell me and i will edit my posts, or you can create a new thread too, but for adding to mine it would be easier if i edited

[Fournine]

*salute*

I've been avoiding this thread because of the disjuctions and sheer volume of material. Now I get nice lil digests!

[Homocidal Ham]

I think you should be able to reverse reversals,
for example if some one counters your roundhouseskick, you would grab their neck with your other foot and do a throw while fliping

it should be hard to do these but have them do massive damage


in fact, any attack should be reversable.

[Eric]

I quoted Homocidal Ham in the appropairate thread. For all intents and purposes this thread is dead, posts should be rare. If your topic does not one of the other "additions to the combat system" threads make a new one in the same style and it will work better.

[xrodneyx]

I'd like to see more Aikido moves and principles, even such as Ki meter
The more Ki you have, the better your technics are..)
It would be good to have the ability to rebind certain technics as user will wish

[»StaffShock«]

I think there should be more attacks that can effect groups than just the rabbit kick, like, the spin kick and wall kick can hit multiple opponents instead of just hitting one into the other. Also, you should be able to throw enemies into one another without reversing a double punch.

[Renegade_Turner]

One thing Lugaru 2 might do with : some form of running punch, such as a clothesline or something to that effect, so that you do not need to put your body at risk by diving in with a high-flying leg cannon.

[Renegade_Turner]

I'd like to see more Aikido moves and principles, even such as Ki meter
The more Ki you have, the better your technics are..)
It would be good to have the ability to rebind certain technics as user will wish

A meter would detract from the immersion of the game.