Is it just me, or are there not enough options for the knife?
I know a lot of you guys probubly love that big stick (compinsating much?) and of course, the sword.. but isn't that knife just dandy?!
So you can slash, stab, throw, throw while jumping (ninja bonus!), stab while someone's knocked down, stab someone in the jugular (I think that happens after slashing twice?), cut someone's throat from behind, and that's it. Why not kicking off a wall stab? Or roll-stab? Ducking and stabbing would be.. interesting.
Are there any knife moves I don't know about?
Oh! And if I'm so blessed as to have this post graced by Dave's eyes, will Lugaru 2 be more shank-friendly?
Shanking!
If nothing else, the knife should be alot more easier than doing something like a body punch. I mean, it should give you longer range, more accurate slashes, the ability to dish out faster attacks since not as much force is applied, and a more complex attack system like leg sweeps (except they'd be like shin stabbers, or ankle slashes). Although for Lugaru, the knife was a really sweet weapon and it served its purpose well (actually, really great if you think about all the great additions like lethal dagger removal, and flip throws). I agree, a little more "shanking" should be brought into Lugaru 2 [you know, some user-friendly combat additions. But ok, I guess the knife is something that should be "mastered" at, not just thrown at you (Both are good and could be justified as to the properties of the knife, I could go on and on)].
*you use brackets when putting parentheses inside perenthesis right?
*you use brackets when putting parentheses inside perenthesis right?
I don't think you are supposed to put parenthesis inside parenthesis, it just made your post confusing. It is kinda funny that I read this very confusing post seconds after writing a post complimenting your concisness and clarity. On topic, I think I get what your are saying, and I sadly admit I am pretty shitty with the knife.
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»StaffShock«
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I've never found myself saying "Damn I wish this knife were more.. accurate". Am I missing something?Zantalos wrote:If nothing else, the knife should be alot more easier than doing something like a body punch. I mean, it should give you longer range, more accurate slashes, the ability to dish out faster attacks since not as much force is applied, and a more complex attack system like leg sweeps (except they'd be like shin stabbers, or ankle slashes).
It's quite possible I am actually..
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Ovaltine
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Yeah, I wouldn't say accurate. I wish it were easier to stab though. Like, it's impossible to not just kick. If there were more triggers to do a knife move than to kick (just a few), that'd be nice.zip wrote:I've never found myself saying "Damn I wish this knife were more.. accurate". Am I missing something?Zantalos wrote:If nothing else, the knife should be alot more easier than doing something like a body punch. I mean, it should give you longer range, more accurate slashes, the ability to dish out faster attacks since not as much force is applied, and a more complex attack system like leg sweeps (except they'd be like shin stabbers, or ankle slashes).
It's quite possible I am actually..
I don't think, however, that things like crouching kicks should be taken out. There should be some non-knife moves when weilding the knife.
Ok, accurate goes along with increased range.
For example the front kick that is used with forwards and attack key, has a very long range, and I consider it quite accurate. I'm saying "accurate" because, the kick is similar to the knife throw, your kicks will meet the enemy in whatever direction he is moving to. It's impossible to just take a step sideways or a step back to dodge it , without 'clicking' or 'shifting'(a kick can even aim at a very high up target, almost a 180 angle).
That's what I'm talking about with the knife, maybe it's not called accurate, but it's a whole lot more fluid. Instead of wide horizontal slashes, the knife could have something like a step forward, or a diagonal thrust opener to close the distance between you and the enemy before Turner actually swings.
Of course, this would make the knife alot more dangerous, which might not fit the Lugaru setting (where unarmed attacks rule big-time). Instead of just attacking knife wielders like they were nothing and disarming them, you would have to act alot more conservative and defensive of their swings and lunges.
Ya, there should always be some non-lethal moves, so crouching kicks could stay, if there were no room for something else like, a knife handle strike to the gut. Although, maybe the only way to subdue an opponent would be to put away your weapon (ok, maybe not).
Man, if enemies could throw, I'd be in a world of hurt. Maybe, that special knife throw Turner does that never seems to lose momentum, (could probably be thrown like a half a mile) nor is it easy to predict when it would happen, should just stay with Turner. I guess there should be a knife throw for the computers, but maybe they should be very inaccurate or, have a lot less range and speed (in terms of knife velocity, and maybe even a long wind-up animation to go first). There could also be a sweet boss that specializes in throwing, much like Turner.
Anything would work for Lugaru 2, as long as their is some form of balance.
For example the front kick that is used with forwards and attack key, has a very long range, and I consider it quite accurate. I'm saying "accurate" because, the kick is similar to the knife throw, your kicks will meet the enemy in whatever direction he is moving to. It's impossible to just take a step sideways or a step back to dodge it , without 'clicking' or 'shifting'(a kick can even aim at a very high up target, almost a 180 angle).
That's what I'm talking about with the knife, maybe it's not called accurate, but it's a whole lot more fluid. Instead of wide horizontal slashes, the knife could have something like a step forward, or a diagonal thrust opener to close the distance between you and the enemy before Turner actually swings.
Of course, this would make the knife alot more dangerous, which might not fit the Lugaru setting (where unarmed attacks rule big-time). Instead of just attacking knife wielders like they were nothing and disarming them, you would have to act alot more conservative and defensive of their swings and lunges.
Ya, there should always be some non-lethal moves, so crouching kicks could stay, if there were no room for something else like, a knife handle strike to the gut. Although, maybe the only way to subdue an opponent would be to put away your weapon (ok, maybe not).
Man, if enemies could throw, I'd be in a world of hurt. Maybe, that special knife throw Turner does that never seems to lose momentum, (could probably be thrown like a half a mile) nor is it easy to predict when it would happen, should just stay with Turner. I guess there should be a knife throw for the computers, but maybe they should be very inaccurate or, have a lot less range and speed (in terms of knife velocity, and maybe even a long wind-up animation to go first). There could also be a sweet boss that specializes in throwing, much like Turner.
Anything would work for Lugaru 2, as long as their is some form of balance.
I really hope L2 has some kick ass weapons combat, as I've never played a game that really gives you the impression of being connected to the weapon.
I'm talking about actually being able to control the weapon as it strikes, for example with a spear you click(hold) to start a stab, but while the spear is striking you can direct it's path, letting you slip through an opponents guard or stab it into their leg or any target you can think of. Letting go of your attack key would abort the stab and bring the spear back, this would allow you to feint to one target then strike another.
Watch the spear fight near the beginning of Hero to see what I have in mind.
This would not only increase the skill required and add depth to the combat, but it would also Feel great. It would be pretty difficult to do properly and I don't know what kind of combat system is already in mind, but I would find that veeery tactile and satisfying ^_^
I'm talking about actually being able to control the weapon as it strikes, for example with a spear you click(hold) to start a stab, but while the spear is striking you can direct it's path, letting you slip through an opponents guard or stab it into their leg or any target you can think of. Letting go of your attack key would abort the stab and bring the spear back, this would allow you to feint to one target then strike another.
Watch the spear fight near the beginning of Hero to see what I have in mind.
This would not only increase the skill required and add depth to the combat, but it would also Feel great. It would be pretty difficult to do properly and I don't know what kind of combat system is already in mind, but I would find that veeery tactile and satisfying ^_^
Hmm, where's the spear fight in Hero? Near the middle of the film you see this frightening short scene of a face off between Jet Li and some dude with a spear and ragged long hair. Jet Li goes through a screen of water, cuts the spear in half and, I'm not sure but, I think the guy gets shanked before Jet Li puts his weapon away. I can't show you any clip, but perhaps you refer to those wobbly spears like the ones used in Kung Fu Hustle (actually, there's not too much control in those).
I've actually seen a game that used full control of the melee system. It isn't in 3rd person view, so I could just as well mention a different game like F.E.A.R. or the Battle Grounds (Morrow Wind? I've never played it before).
Anyways, the game is Condemned: Criminal Origins, it is almost a pure First Person Shooter that only uses melee weapons and a couple guns. You have a strike button and you have a block button, you basically beat up a bunch of guys through out the whole game. Since it isn't an adventure game, it is pretty easy to move, swing, and jump at the same time. (In third person, it may look funny but you never actually see it with your view, so who cares).
I'm not sure how it would work for a 3rd person adventure game since I don't know how you would move and attack.
Maybe you could use the W-S-A-D keys to run around while you swing your spear with the mouse (I guess not, since that would take away the ability to turn the camera, and thus change directions and steer). The only way for this work would be to stop moving, use wsad to turn in place, while you swing the weapon with the mouse and stab.
This could take alot of of coding if David actually wants to do this. But, all the other weapons like the knife and staff should stay the same. I'm really not sure if this would be worth it, because then Turner wouldn't be able to pull off some wicked sick moves, like spear throwing (Actually i guess that could be done), fast overhead and underhead swings, some spin moves, and of course, the lunging thrust that could potentially skewer your opponent.
Hey, this reminds me of all those flash sword games like Jedi Trainer 2.0 that has some nice blocking and swinging controlls. Real fun. (Bam 32 kills, 9111 points).
Edit: Oh wait, instead of moving your arms to swing, you could just move your whole body, with the mouse. This would allow you to turn and strike with the mouse aswell as being able to move and sidestep with keys. I guess it may be alot simpler than what I'm talking about (though you wouldn't get the whole arm swinging effect unless you stand still when you click, this may make the easy controlling game alot harder than what it should normally be like).
I've actually seen a game that used full control of the melee system. It isn't in 3rd person view, so I could just as well mention a different game like F.E.A.R. or the Battle Grounds (Morrow Wind? I've never played it before).
Anyways, the game is Condemned: Criminal Origins, it is almost a pure First Person Shooter that only uses melee weapons and a couple guns. You have a strike button and you have a block button, you basically beat up a bunch of guys through out the whole game. Since it isn't an adventure game, it is pretty easy to move, swing, and jump at the same time. (In third person, it may look funny but you never actually see it with your view, so who cares).
I'm not sure how it would work for a 3rd person adventure game since I don't know how you would move and attack.
Maybe you could use the W-S-A-D keys to run around while you swing your spear with the mouse (I guess not, since that would take away the ability to turn the camera, and thus change directions and steer). The only way for this work would be to stop moving, use wsad to turn in place, while you swing the weapon with the mouse and stab.
This could take alot of of coding if David actually wants to do this. But, all the other weapons like the knife and staff should stay the same. I'm really not sure if this would be worth it, because then Turner wouldn't be able to pull off some wicked sick moves, like spear throwing (Actually i guess that could be done), fast overhead and underhead swings, some spin moves, and of course, the lunging thrust that could potentially skewer your opponent.
Hey, this reminds me of all those flash sword games like Jedi Trainer 2.0 that has some nice blocking and swinging controlls. Real fun. (Bam 32 kills, 9111 points).
Edit: Oh wait, instead of moving your arms to swing, you could just move your whole body, with the mouse. This would allow you to turn and strike with the mouse aswell as being able to move and sidestep with keys. I guess it may be alot simpler than what I'm talking about (though you wouldn't get the whole arm swinging effect unless you stand still when you click, this may make the easy controlling game alot harder than what it should normally be like).