Portal 2

[Assaultman67]

I think you missed the point of my post.

I meant to say that what you were arguing was ridiculous since it's the nature of things for there to be things you can't buy. It's like feeling entitled to a free copy of Microsoft Office 2010 because you bought a Windows PC in 2009.

I wasn't arguing about what we are or aren't entitled to ... never did I once say "Give me this because im entitled to it" or anything like it. wanting something and thinking you're entitled to it are two different things.

Do I want a ferrari?
Hell yea
Am I entitled to a free ferrari?
not at all

Can you afford a ferrari?
No!

Hence you decide not to get a Ferrari, however, you're certainly not happier because you can't get the Ferrari. Commercials only keep reminding you, you can't afford the Ferrari.

I was saying that not being able to afford those things causes unhappiness. However, by either not knowing about these things, or not being reminded of them continuously, we would be much happier.

As for the DLC stuff? yea ... that does piss me off ... but I dont think I'm entitled to have it because it exists ... I do however think we would all actually be much happier with the game if the DLC content didn't exist at all ...

Sure, the opportunity to have that content would be gone, but the annoyance and dissatisfaction of having that "opportunity" flashed in your face all the time would be gone as well.

No one ever thinks while playing the game "You know what would make this game better, if I were wearing a frying pan for a hat" unless its somewhere advertised "hey, you can wear this frying pan for a hat for $15".

(also i should probably chill off on the rant ... i might give the impression to people that this is an "angry" rant)

[Renegade_Turner]

As for the DLC stuff? yea ... that does piss me off ... but I dont think I'm entitled to have it because it exists ... I do however think we would all actually be much happier with the game if the DLC content didn't exist at all ...

This sounds like more of a problem with you rather than a problem with the game.

I don't want a Ferrari.

And I'm absolutely delighted that Metacritic's scores have gone back up to closer to where they should be. Of all the game developers out there, Valve are one of the last that deserve to be slated like this.

[Blorx]

Oh hey, look.

The user Metacritic score just doubled overnight.

So... Blorx, oh great believer in the Metacritic userbase, does that mean that the game has just spontaneously become better?

Nah, I just thought it was funny. I wasn't attempting to use it to back anything. I just had noted that it happened and said I agreed with the score based on my own opinions.

As for the DLC, like I said, it's not the fact that it's DLC that makes me irritated. It's the fact that they clearly took the game, said "what can we hold back to sell for more money" and went with it (I don't care when in development they did this, it happened at some point).

They had $85 worth of DLC out on release day, and NONE of it is extra content. This is a single-fucking-player game. In some cases, it's a console game, no less. I don't want to jump onto my SINGLE PLAYER game and see advertisements to buy a hat. If I wanted to do that, I could jump into any number of Facebook games or free to play MMORPGs. I want to play a game and realize that the $60 price tag gave me everything that the game has to offer.

But that won't happen, and it rarely does anymore. The furthered integration of console gaming and the internet have brought this whole "DLC" nonsense into the mainstream, and I just don't want to be a part of it.

But that's just me, it seems.

[Assaultman67]

As for the DLC stuff? yea ... that does piss me off ... but I dont think I'm entitled to have it because it exists ... I do however think we would all actually be much happier with the game if the DLC content didn't exist at all ...

This sounds like more of a problem with you rather than a problem with the game.

I don't want a Ferrari.

Are you kidding me? everyone wants a ferrari! (but you can replace Ferrari with whatever vehicle you do want but cant afford)

(also I thought I was pretty clear I was talking about advertising in general, portal 2's adverting just triggered the rant)

I think you're just trollin'

[Renegade_Turner]

Nah, I just thought it was funny. I wasn't attempting to use it to back anything. I just had noted that it happened and said I agreed with the score based on my own opinions.

Not sure how you could agree with such a poor scoring of a game you haven't played when you have prior knowledge that the original game was very good. That seems completely illogical.

[Renegade_Turner]

Are you kidding me? everyone wants a ferrari! (but you can replace Ferrari with whatever vehicle you do want but cant afford)

(also I thought I was pretty clear I was talking about advertising in general, portal 2's adverting just triggered the rant)

I think you're just trollin'

1. Not trolling.

2. I don't want any car that I can't afford. I drive my dad's car and for the moment that has me content. Some day when I move out and have the funds to buy a modest car I will choose whichever used car is the best value based on balancing its roadworthiness and its cost against each other. I will buy this car because it will be a necessity, not because it goes fast and it looks pretty. I do not fall under "everyone" apparently, regardless of replacing "ferrari" with whatever car in the world you wish.

3. While your rant was about advertising, it was pretty clear you were likening the behaviour of Valve in this instance to all of the other material in your rant, and so I will admonish you to be reverent of the quality of games rather than paying too much attention to the downloadable content which the developers of those games advertise. This is because advertising these extra things is something, as you've already said, which is common practice in this industry and every other industry in the world.

Another example: modifying cars with customised spoilers, rims etc. Practically useless and purely aesthetic in value, these are the perfect simile for downloadable content in games which has no real practical value...but would you get angry at car manufacturers for not including those with the cars when manufactured?

[Assaultman67]

1. Not trolling.

k lol.

2. I don't want any car that I can't afford. I drive my dad's car and for the moment that has me content. Some day when I move out and have the funds to buy a modest car I will choose whichever used car is the best value based on balancing its roadworthiness and its cost against each other. I will buy this car because it will be a necessity, not because it goes fast and it looks pretty. I do not fall under "everyone" apparently, regardless of replacing "ferrari" with whatever car in the world you wish.

I guess that "cars" is a somewhat bad example because not everyone is a car enthusiast The point I made still stands, Its just that i cant give a specific good example because I don't know what your interest are. I guess im saying there has to be at least some products out there you really want, but you simply cant afford it. Hence the commercials only remind you of this unhappiness.

being unable to afford something doesnt mean you dont want something ... it simply means you can't afford it

Id like a CNCmachine but those things costs up to 10,000's of dollars, so I will never be able to afford one (or at least justify the costs in buying it)

... Another example: modifying cars with customised spoilers, rims etc. Practically useless and purely aesthetic in value, these are the perfect simile for downloadable content in games which has no real practical value...but would you get angry at car manufacturers for not including those with the cars when manufactured?

Wouldn't you get angry if there was an advertisement for those accessories that popped up on the dash every time you start your car? people are angry at the aggressive advertising ... not the product accessories. If valve backed off with their advertising, they wouldn't be getting 1/4th of the complaints they are now and they could keep their micro transaction system.

And I guess you could say "oh, well dont buy portal 2 if it annoys you that much" ... the funny thing is no one even knew that valve was going to be selling hats and doing the same microtransactions as seen in TF2 before portal 2 came out. We all assumed it would work just like portal 1 did, a great game with no gimmicks.

I guess that means we should start reading the EULA before we preorder huh ... its too bad that's absolutely no where to be found.

not to mention in the old days you had to buy the game first just to look at the EULA. Or there were clauses saying that you have accepted to the EULA the minute you opened the package to view it.

[Grayswandir]

I guess im saying there has to be at least some products out there you really want, but you simply cant afford it. Hence the commercials only remind you of this unhappiness.

I'm sure everyone has something they can't afford, but they don't blame the company for advertising to people who can afford it. You make it sound like this "unhappiness" is making it hard for you to live your life.

being unable to afford something doesnt mean you dont want something ... it simply means you can't afford it

So save up the money and buy whatever.

Id like a CNCmachine but those things costs up to 10,000's of dollars, so I will never be able to afford one (or at least justify the costs in buying it)

$10,000 for a coffee machine is stupid. Unless it gives you a happy ending and walks your kids into a busy highway and pile-drives oncoming cars.

As for the DLC stuff? yea ... that does piss me off ... but I dont think I'm entitled to have it because it exists ... I do however think we would all actually be much happier with the game if the DLC content didn't exist at all ...

I like some DLC content, sure some games DLC is ridiculous, but there's some decent DLC stuff out there. Its not required to buy, its there if you want it.

And I guess you could say "oh, well dont buy portal 2 if it annoys you that much" ... the funny thing is no one even knew that valve was going to be selling hats and doing the same microtransactions as seen in TF2 before portal 2 came out. We all assumed it would work just like portal 1 did, a great game with no gimmicks.

This is what happens when you assume things.

I still don't see why you keep bringing up unhappiness (which sounds like a personal problem with advertisements for things you can't afford). You keep blaming advertisements for your unhappiness. Or Valve for using advertisements that cause your unhappiness. Well, you have a job, it gives you money, go save some of it, and go buy the stuff you want. Whining about it and saying, "advertisements cause me suffering, they're bad, bitch, moan, piss," isn't going to help you buy the stuff you want any faster. Even this aggressive advertising you're bitching about, you obviously want what they're advertising (otherwise it wouldn't remind you of your unhappiness), so get together some money and buy the shit.

[Assaultman67]

Its an endless lose lose situation that is propogated by advertisements. Without advertisements, we wouldn't know the product existed, therefore, we wouldn't experience the unhappiness of not having it.

Of course this system of "no advertising" would never work in the status quo's economy. But saying that anything is acceptable because its the status quo doesn't exactly pan out logically. If that was true, there would be absolutely no reason or drive to advance technology, improve society, or right the wrongs being done in the world.

... Even this aggressive advertising you're bitching about, you obviously want what they're advertising (otherwise it wouldn't remind you of your unhappiness), so get together some money and buy the shit.

Sometimes, I do want whatever is being advertised and cannot afford it. Which in turn does generate ever so slight unhappiness. (not so much for the portal 2 stuff though ... shit, I haven't even played the game yet)

However, this does happens to all of us quite often but we simply can't afford everything we could ever want.

As said before, if you try to buy everything you desire, the inital happiness you experience from buying the product wears off and you then experience the unhappiness of being that much more broke or you experience the unhappiness of not having the next thing you want.

If you think about it, there are alot of similarities between materialistic nature and drug addicts looking for their next fix.

I'll give it a month before everyone here forgets about portal 2 and starts another topic about wanting to get another game. Probably because they saw some sort of advertisement.

Its an endless lose lose situation that is propogated all by advertisements. Without advertisements, we wouldn't know the product existed, therefore, we would be completely oblivious to the experience of unhappiness from not having it.

Of course that would eventually lead to the products not existing themselfves, but would that really be a problem if we never knew they existed in the first place?

[Grayswandir]

Its an endless lose lose situation that is propogated by advertisements. Without advertisements, we wouldn't know the product existed, therefore, we wouldn't experience the unhappiness of not having it.

So, ignorance is bliss?

Of course this system of "no advertising" would never work in the status quo's economy. But saying that anything is acceptable because its the status quo doesn't exactly pan out logically. If that was true, there would be absolutely no reason or drive to advance technology, improve society, or right the wrongs being done in the world.

I'm not saying anything is acceptable, I just don't get why you're so hung up on advertisements causing you "unhappiness" when you could solve that problem with a bit of work.

Sometimes, I do want whatever is being advertised and cannot afford it. Which in turn does generate ever so slight unhappiness.

Sure, you can't have it now, but if you work towards saving up money, you can earn enough to buy it.

However, this does happens to all of us quite often but we simply can't afford everything we could ever want.

Well yeah, but if you really want it, then you'll save up for it. If its just something that really isn't that important, you'll get over it.

As said before, if you try to buy everything you desire, the inital happiness you experience from buying the product wears off and you then experience the unhappiness of being that much more broke or you experience the unhappiness of not having the next thing you want.

This is why you be a smart consumer, and buy what you can afford, and save up for what you can't afford immediately (assuming you want it, you don't just buy something because an advertisement says its awesome, that's just stupid.)...and if you have more important things to worry about, like bills and food, then you really shouldn't even be bothering with consumer products anyway. Like I said before, there are ways to save up for stuff you want without putting yourself in a hole and still paying bills on time and being able to buy all the essentials.

If you think about it, there are alot of similarities between materialistic nature and drug addicts looking for their next fix.

I can see that, people like material goods, and want new and better stuff.

I'll give it a month before everyone here forgets about portal 2 and starts another topic about wanting to get another game. Probably because they saw some sort of advertisement.

Probably.

Its an endless lose lose situation that is propogated all by advertisements. Without advertisements, we wouldn't know the product existed, therefore, we would be completely oblivious to the experience of unhappiness from not having it.

Of course that would eventually lead to the products not existing themselfves, but would that really be a problem if we never knew they existed in the first place?

So you're saying that having a product (any product) not exist entirely is better than having it advertised and potentially causing you unhappiness?

[Renegade_Turner]

Assaultman, I'm getting the impression that you're a particularly submissive, weak-willed and easily impressionable person...what you're complaining about sounds ridiculous. There are petty enough gripes to constitute the term "bitching". I honestly am having a hard time believing that you're taking issue with advertisements as a rule...

Gaming websites advertise games. If they didn't, you'd never hear about half the games you've bought or played. Would that be preferable? Are you better off not knowing about the things you can't have that would make you happy, or are you better off knowing about the things you CAN have that DO make you happy?

Again, this is me being purely sincere.

[Assaultman67]

Probably either way keeping in mind that the happiness is temporary

Although its pretty hard to even imagine the effects of a society without advertising.

I guess it depends on how happy people would be in a world without frivolous products keeping in mind that they have never had that luxury in the first place.

Assaultman, I'm getting the impression that you're a particularly submissive, weak-willed and easily impressionable person...

Isn't the general population within society particularly submissive, weak-willed, and easily impressionable?

Every once in a while there is some christmas sale the day after thanksgiving or whatever where some poor soul gets trampled to death by a mob. I think that's a sign that the materialism has gotten out of hand.




And this shit happens every fucking Christmas.

[Renegade_Turner]

That's never happened in Ireland, to my knowledge. And I'd hear about something like that...

[Ere Was I]

This is a fine discussion and all, but I feel I should nip this problem in the bud before it infects the rest of the discussion:

Materialism - In philosophy, the theory of materialism holds that the only thing that exists is matter; that all things are composed of material and all phenomena (including consciousness) are the result of material interactions.

I think the word you guys are looking for is consumerism. Materialism is just good science. I don't like the idea that good science is ruining 'Merica.

And to make this post on topic, I have to agree it's annoying when developers make it so that the hefty price tag of their game isn't the only fee. But who is ever tempted to buy hats, even in TF2? Seriously, I get the feeling that people are mad about the hats because they know that they'll be tempted to buy those pixels.

I trust Valve to remain tasteful about their DLC; once DLC goes beyond the realm of the cosmetic, there's a problem. *COUGH*BIOWARE*COUGH*



I'd like to add that you're all sexy.

[Renegade_Turner]

This is a fine discussion and all, but I feel I should nip this problem in the bud before it infects the rest of the discussion:

Materialism - In philosophy, the theory of materialism holds that the only thing that exists is matter; that all things are composed of material and all phenomena (including consciousness) are the result of material interactions.

I think the word you guys are looking for is consumerism. Materialism is just good science. I don't like the idea that good science is ruining 'Merica.

Oh look at this pseudo-intellectual. We obviously weren't using materialism in the sense of the word that means a person believes that nothing exists but physical matter. We were using materialism in the sense of the word that means a person whose sole desires are based on wealth and possessions rather than matters of the mind such as morality, personality and happiness.

There was no need to come in with your dictionary reference of a meaning of a word that we weren't using. Who uses the word "materialism" in the sense which you described anywhere outside of philosophy anyway? What's most common is the idea of the word which we were using. Words are defined as what they are habitually seen to mean. Gah!

Sorry, that was a bit over-the-top. I didn't even use the word "materialism" and I got annoyed about you trying to obnoxiously correct people when they weren't wrong.